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Thread: Peeps in the happy holidays image

  1. #131
    Speed Seeker Deuce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shirty View Post
    not putting it down as they have done a good job but their cartoony style makes rigging far easier.
    But they have the same number of limbs to rig. And from what I have seen, the skeleton they are rigging to is way more complex than RCTW. You've lost me here dude, how does it matter if the end result has a cartoon face or a realistic one? The PC models move in a humanoid way, it's more than convincing enough not to care..

  2. #132
    Stall Supporter shirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    But they have the same number of limbs to rig. And from what I have seen, the skeleton they are rigging to is way more complex than RCTW. You've lost me here dude, how does it matter if the end result has a cartoon face or a realistic one? The PC models move in a humanoid way, it's more than convincing enough not to care..
    Its mostly down to the skinny limbs. Having skinny limbs makes creases almost non-existent and so you cant notice the issues.
    I would far rather attach a skinny cartoon model to a rig than a realistic model, its just much easier and forgiving.
    Its almost as easy as rigging a humanoid robot.
    Also in regards the face, the eyebrows are floating and the eyes are spots, couldn't make the eye area any easier

    BTW a spline is nothing to do with a skeleton or rigging. A spline is simply a line with interpolation, which is great for making smooth curved lines in 3D space, hence why it was used for the track. It is possible to make an entire model out of splines which would be a spline cage model which is good for use where extremely high polycounts might be needed, (eg in film closeups) as you can just up the interpolation to get a smoother mesh without affecting the rigging the base cage is attached to. Basically it grants unlimited LOD without any extra work, but its not a game concept its more movies and tbh its not so favoured anymore thanks to 3D sculpting, normal mapping and displacement giving just the same detail or more for less work and a better work pipeline.
    Last edited by shirty; 12-29-2015 at 10:00 AM.

  3. #133
    Speed Seeker Deuce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shirty View Post
    Its mostly down to the skinny limbs the skinny limbs makes creases almost non-existent and so you cant notice the issues.
    I would far rather attach a skinny cartoon model to a rig than a realistic model, its just much easier and forgiving.
    That's a fair point, they do have skinnier limbs. But only slightly more so than the RCTW models.

    I can't know for sure yet, but I think that looking at the overall proven ambition of PC guest animation vs RCTW, the PC guests do seem to have more joints. I feel the RCTW peeps break apart sooner due to less flexibility by design, in addition to lower quality rigging.

    I guess we have to wait and see the final results of both. But so far, there hasn't been a single example of RCTW exceeding the quality of PC, so I wouldn't hold your breath.

    As an example, I've also noticed in some animations that PC guests clothing moves almost independently of the main skeleton. It must be attached somehow, but maybe jointed and animate or jointed and positioned by physics engine? Either way, as you said earlier, the RCTW peeps are probably sufficient for this type of game - PC have gone so far beyond sufficient though. Personally I'm a fan of going beyond, it's good to drive progress and expectations. Also nice to see these little touches when you occasionally zoom in. It reminds you the people that made the game cared as much as you did when you paid for it.

  4. #134
    Stall Supporter shirty's Avatar
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    I haven't noticed PC clothing moving but cloth physics are quite well refined now and it could well be a very simple cloth physics, like I say I haven't seen it, at least not that I have noticed.
    It could be that they have just added a bit of drag to the clothes verts so they can appear to move independently from the character while they are actually fully rigged to it.

    not sure what you mean by more joints though. surely they both have the same standard bone count for everything but the face. face rigs don't generally use bones at all instead they have an entire rig setup that is attached to the head bone and comprises of null objects acting as controllers to govern the entire face. that's the tiga way anyway
    Last edited by shirty; 12-28-2015 at 10:32 PM.

  5. #135
    Speed Seeker Deuce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shirty View Post
    I haven't noticed PC clothing moving but cloth physics are quite well refined now and it could well be a very simple cloth physics, like I say I haven't seen it, at least not that I have noticed.
    It could be that they have just added a bit of drag to the clothes verts so they can appear to move independently from the character while they are actually fully rigged to it.
    That's probably it. Probably just drag as that is all that is needed. It could be full physics, but that would be a waste. Also a system killer if they're serious about 20k peeps in a park!

    It's only a very subtle effect. It's the sort of thing you don't notice because it's done properly. Try some of their youtube vids slowed down and you can see it. It may actually be straight animation of just small parts to give the overall illusion.

  6. #136
    Stall Supporter shirty's Avatar
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    indeed its possible that its straight up animation, they could even have rigged the clothes to make that easier its not a difficult addition (maybe time consuming though) and adds a little degree of realism that most will never know was there.
    That's the thing with animation and realism, most people wont notice what is there and adding to realism but its easier to notice something isn't there and distracts from the realism.
    That leads onto the basis of the uncanny valley, where if something appears realistic but it is missing something minor then it just doesn't seem right, but you cant put your finger on why because its something that isn't there.
    Last edited by shirty; 12-29-2015 at 12:21 AM.

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