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Thread: Some random disturbing thought

  1. #1
    Passive Peep Vampiro's Avatar
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    Some random disturbing thought

    As i've stated multiple times on here i have been a big fan of the RCT series since RCT1. In my opinion especially RCT3 was an awesome game. Ofcourse it had it's downside (peep AL for example) but all in all a lot of what we wanted was there.

    To add to that, RCT3 had a VERY creative fanbase and over the years the costum scenery has become overwhelming and nearly all coastertypes have become available. Just think about the omnimovers and how we are able to recreate mainstreet's and amazing buildings with all those amazing CSO packs.

    So here comes my disturbing tought, i WANT to like this game, but how can this ever surpass RCT3 in terms of a "complete" game. Ofcourse it can add better graphics, better coasters and a few options that RCT3 didn't have (darkrides!)
    But all in all, can this game ever beat RCT3 when it comes to "completeness"?

    It's like when you close your eyes and imagine the park of your dreams. When i would try to recreate it in RCT3 i think it will be doable for the most part nowdays as all the needed pieces are in the game. (once again thanks to all the CSO) Will i still be able to do that with RCTW? At release or in the future (with added custom CSO?)

    All in all, will RCTW ever be able to surpass that? And become a better "tool" to recreate the park of your dreams?

    I really hope it will.. i really hope RCTW will offer all that RCT3 had, but just better and more.
    Last edited by Vampiro; 02-22-2015 at 07:11 PM.

  2. #2
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    Well, a creepier thought is if you search Space Mountain RCT3, it's not recognizable as RCT3. Have we already created RCTW? This leads me to believe that maybe the community is the one that created RCTW. I'm worried that Atari created the sequel much too late and all the dooers have moved on to new things. That we'll be stuck with vanilla objects. Now, think about that.

  3. #3
    Vampiro-

    I want to like RCTW as well. I am able to stay optimistic about it, and am still hoping for an awesome product.

    I would like some more description of what you mean by "complete game". and I'm not meaning to be a prick here- 'complete game' is so open to interpretation, could you be more specific of what you mean?

    For example, when I read 'complete game', I get stuck on game, interpreting as gameplay and game mechanics. In this case I think that RCT3 was at best marginally better that RCT2, and feel that there is room for RCTW to improve. The AI of the peeps was better in RCT2 than 3, the additional booths and rides featured what was able to be licensed with Hershey and left me wanting other stuff, there were no carnival game booths, and the included scenario options did not allow for making a really challenging scenario, to name a few things.

    On another hand, meaning 'complete game' as 'complete product', then I think that your mention of all the available CSO packs as a favorable point, actually indicates that the official product is less complete. Community-developed hacks and additions would not be needed if the product was more complete (and new content updated throughout its lifetime).

    On another hand, meaning 'complete game' as 'user experience' seems to me to be what you are meaning, and in this regard I think that the development of a major title like RCTW is expected to have a lot more community input during the development. Certainly more than RCT3, when social media was just starting to hit the mainstream. A savvy Devloper/Company would realize this, and spend effort on the difficulties to explore this relationship.

    Does this mean then that if the community's voice is ignored that the user experience will suck? Not necessarily. It took a few years for the CSO packs to be developed for RCT3, and it will take that long for RCTW as well.

    Does this mean that if the community's voice is embraced 100% that the product will be awesome? Almost certainly not. Generally, people do not express themselves well or accurately. For example, people have mentioned that they really want curved paths. Ok, so we get curved path pieces that work like tram track or railroad track curves, and you can't put a shop or ride entrance on them, or a path junction. I think the reaction would be along the lines of They really messed up with the curved paths. What's the point of having them if we can't use them for stuff? And the developer's response along the lines of we gave you what you asked for. You didn't say that you wanted to etc, etc...

  4. #4
    Passive Peep Vampiro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeerWhiskers View Post
    Vampiro-

    I want to like RCTW as well. I am able to stay optimistic about it, and am still hoping for an awesome product.

    I would like some more description of what you mean by "complete game". and I'm not meaning to be a prick here- 'complete game' is so open to interpretation, could you be more specific of what you mean?

    For example, when I read 'complete game', I get stuck on game, interpreting as gameplay and game mechanics. In this case I think that RCT3 was at best marginally better that RCT2, and feel that there is room for RCTW to improve. The AI of the peeps was better in RCT2 than 3, the additional booths and rides featured what was able to be licensed with Hershey and left me wanting other stuff, there were no carnival game booths, and the included scenario options did not allow for making a really challenging scenario, to name a few things.

    On another hand, meaning 'complete game' as 'complete product', then I think that your mention of all the available CSO packs as a favorable point, actually indicates that the official product is less complete. Community-developed hacks and additions would not be needed if the product was more complete (and new content updated throughout its lifetime).

    On another hand, meaning 'complete game' as 'user experience' seems to me to be what you are meaning, and in this regard I think that the development of a major title like RCTW is expected to have a lot more community input during the development. Certainly more than RCT3, when social media was just starting to hit the mainstream. A savvy Devloper/Company would realize this, and spend effort on the difficulties to explore this relationship.

    Does this mean then that if the community's voice is ignored that the user experience will suck? Not necessarily. It took a few years for the CSO packs to be developed for RCT3, and it will take that long for RCTW as well.

    Does this mean that if the community's voice is embraced 100% that the product will be awesome? Almost certainly not. Generally, people do not express themselves well or accurately. For example, people have mentioned that they really want curved paths. Ok, so we get curved path pieces that work like tram track or railroad track curves, and you can't put a shop or ride entrance on them, or a path junction. I think the reaction would be along the lines of They really messed up with the curved paths. What's the point of having them if we can't use them for stuff? And the developer's response along the lines of we gave you what you asked for. You didn't say that you wanted to etc, etc...
    I get your point

    I will try to explain myself a bit better altough its a bit challenging since englisch isn't my native language (i'm Dutch)

    What i ment was that i think of the game in 2 ways, gameplay and content.

    With RCT3 the gameplay was fairly okay but had quite a few shortcommings. For example it has no darkrides, peeps dont behave the way we want them to behave (Waiting for group, not using transportation, empty que lines), designing coasters is somewhat limited, graphics have a lot of room for improvement, etc etc. All in all, there is a lot to be improved in gameplay.

    Content wise however there is anything we wanted and more. The basic game came with 6? 8? themes (incl. add-ons) but thanks to all the user created content we now have 100+ themes. Pretty much all themes you can think of are out there.
    So you can create pretty much any kind of park you want within the somewhat limited (but still okay) gameplay that RCT3 offers.
    Same goes for coastertypes, the community has created pretty much all coastertypes and even omnimovers so we can create darkrides to a certain extend.

    What i was trying to say was that RCTW will come with 4 basic themes. So content wise it's nowhere near as "complete" as RCT3 is at this point.

    So RCT3 is "complete" in content, but has its flaws in gameplay.
    RCTW will hopefully fix all the flaws in gameplay so that the base game will be better, but it wil lack in content.

    So i hope the basic game will have a really good gameplay and make it easy to create CSO, just so that RCTW can match RCT3 in content in the future. I dont want to choose between 2 games, a game with awesome possibilities but limited content, or another game with limited possibilities but endless content.

    Thats why i really hope RCTW will have awesome gameplay. If it does, the community will spend time to make this game even better and this game can become just as "complete" as RCT3 is nowdays. If the gameplay is lacking features or is only mediocore, i really doubt if the community will develop so much CSO as we did with RCT3.
    (It would be even more awesome if we could convert our RCT3 CSO to be used in RCTW)

    I hope this makes a bit more sense

    PS. i agree with you, good communication is an art, especially when talking in another language
    Last edited by Vampiro; 02-23-2015 at 11:38 AM.

  5. #5
    Passive Peep VACkillers's Avatar
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    Well lets not beat around the bush here, RCT3 is probably the the best game of the series or up there with the first game but it still had its issues other than performance. The tools weren't so user friendly for example, only straight lined roads and que lines, of course graphics could easily be something that can always be improved on. The themes were okay, always felt themes could have been done a lot better and it didn't seem to matter all that much. The track editor seems like it has gone through a total and complete re-word for RCT:W so that I'm really excited to see exactly what they've done to that.

    None of the games have really gone all out on water parks yet, yes RCT3 had the "Get Soaked" expansion which was absolutely awesome, but you never had a any sort of variety in the rides themselves though, frontier just betted on us the players to create our own rides for the most part for the pool stuff which wasn't exactly an easy thing to accomplish in itself, another not so user friendly tool set. More stalls and rides never go a miss, more customization options, more different types of entertainers.

    Only thing I don't wanna see is zoo parks or animals, that stuff I have never cared about.

  6. #6
    the devs expressed many times how easy it was to develop custom content. I am certain much of the current custom content from rct3 can be ported over to rctw

  7. #7
    Passive Peep Vampiro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Space Cops View Post
    the devs expressed many times how easy it was to develop custom content. I am certain much of the current custom content from rct3 can be ported over to rctw
    I know they vaguely said something about that it's easyer to import stuff but im not aware they mentioned it multiple times.
    You mind to post a link to where it was stated it would be very easy ?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Space Cops View Post
    the devs expressed many times how easy it was to develop custom content. I am certain much of the current custom content from rct3 can be ported over to rctw
    RCT3 was developed on the Cobra engine from Frontier Developments. I am fairly certain (98% sure) that RCT4 (RCTW) does not use the Cobra engine.

    Generally, different engines will not support cross-engine files without a lot of additional code in place for proper compatibility.

  9. #9
    But RCTW looks a lot like RCT3! Isn't it possible Atari has the intellectual rights on the Cobra engine so they can use it for RCTW?

  10. #10
    Passive Peep VACkillers's Avatar
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    I think it would be quite exciting to start off fresh again for everything instead of just simply important old content... May be able to do things that simply wasn't possible in RCT3 in the new game too

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