PDA

View Full Version : RollerCoaster Tycoon World Production Blog #11



Mattlab
06-24-2015, 01:16 AM
RollerCoaster Tycoon World Blog Post #11 Discussion Thread (http://www.rollercoastertycoon.com/rollercoaster-tycoon-world-production-blog-11/)



Dear Fans,
We’re just getting back from E3, after showing a number of Atari projects. We hope you are as excited as we are for the many great games coming out later this year – including RCTW! The development team is hard at work polishing our newly integrated milestone. This game is big and we have a lot to do over the next few months which is why we have an incredible (and large) team working on it.

All of this work now also allows us to begin showing off full in-game screenshots rather than the game engine shots we had been showing for the last few weeks. For the first time you get to see what the game actually looks like right now un-edited, and how all of the hard work is paying off.
To start, we wanted to share a view down a path in a park a member of our team made. The focus of this first shot is scenery and environment. Before we reveal the rides (and more) we wanted to start with the basics – the ground floor of your park, if you will.

We are gearing up next for our developer reveal and screenshots that we know will get everyone very excited. Rather than me talking about many of the new and improved features, I have asked the team to take a shot that simply shows them all off – including the rides. Until then, we will be a little quieter on the forums and social media as we focus on our upcoming big reveal.

That said, keep posting on our forums as many of your ideas (which you will see very soon) have made it into the game and are shaping it every day! Now’s the perfect time to join our community, as you’ll soon be able to chat with our development and community management teams!

Cheers,
“Mattlab”
Executive Producer
RollerCoaster Tycoon World

http://www.rollercoastertycoon.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/PathSetUp_02-1100x824.png?9de0fa

dwwilkin
06-24-2015, 01:18 AM
Great new pic

Marvin
06-24-2015, 01:21 AM
Looks good. That's a really nice entrance.

JayB_Yolo
06-24-2015, 01:53 AM
Ya this is what I was talking about everything just looks great.(brought tears into my eyes)

BRUXXUS
06-24-2015, 01:59 AM
I must have a 6th sense for when these blog posts go up. I'll completely forget about this then suddenly remember to check and, BOOM, new blog post.

All the new stuff being revealed since the new team took over have been amazing, but seeing that screenshot completely blows my mind. I can't understand what Area 52 was doing with their time. All this progress (just what we've seen so far) has happened at light speed compared to most developers.

Also, seeing how much more the new team seems to be familiar with the look and feel of previous RCT games makes me SUPER curious why they weren't hired to to the game in the first place. I'm sure once we find out who they are it'll either become obvious, or it'll remain a mystery forever.

Bottom line; I'm more excited for RCTW than I have been at any other point since it was announced!
Looking forward to seeing more.

Everett
06-24-2015, 02:42 AM
LOVE IT! i really enjoy the details of the backdrop with the Snowy Hills. And the texture of the entrance pillars.
Cannot wait for whats to come!!! *Thumps up* ;)

edit: just noticed the shadows look very realistic! :cool: any insight on how "Time" will progress in the game? i know past games seems to only have Morning, Evening, and Night.

Deuce
06-24-2015, 03:01 AM
It's a massive improvement on the area52 game!!

I'm still massage belly dance disappointed to see a straight, grid aligned path though. The screenshot looks great but it would look soooooo much better, so much more '2015' if the path snaked graciously into the distance.

for me, a great improvement but it's hard to get excited for this game until the people making it show evidence of advancing from the rigid RCT3 grid.

jackk
06-24-2015, 03:09 AM
Palm trees and snow is an interesting choice but the graphics are a good improvement. The new team are great!

jackk
06-24-2015, 03:10 AM
It's a massive improvement on the area52 game!!

I'm still massage belly dance disappointed to see a straight, grid aligned path though. The screenshot looks great but it would look soooooo much better, so much more '2015' if the path snaked graciously into the distance.

for me, a great improvement but it's hard to get excited for this game until the people making it show evidence of advancing from the rigid RCT3 grid.

The grid doesn't really bother me much. You can still make great parks either way!

Deuce
06-24-2015, 03:30 AM
The grid doesn't really bother me much. You can still make great parks either way!

Just not realistic parks!

JayB_Yolo
06-24-2015, 03:56 AM
Just not realistic parks!

But I think paths are curved like look in the image you see a far away wall that's look curved:confused:.
And I don't think it is following old grid system as look at the distance between flower bed and paths and it doesn't even look half.

jerseygrrll
06-24-2015, 03:58 AM
Be still my fluttering heart! Great screen shot, the shadows, the flowers, the benches. Thanks for the update, Mattlab!

Deuce
06-24-2015, 04:00 AM
But I think paths are curved like look in the image you see a far away wall that's look curved:confused:.
And I don't think it is following old grid system as look at the distance between flower bed and paths and it doesn't even look half.

I also thought it might be a large circle at the end of the straight path, but if you look really closely on the right hand side of the screen, you can see a typical RCT 90 degree corner.

No evidence of curves yet - but who knows what it's actually like lol

JayB_Yolo
06-24-2015, 04:26 AM
I also thought it might be a large circle at the end of the straight path, but if you look really closely on the right hand side of the screen, you can see a typical RCT 90 degree corner.

No evidence of curves yet - but who knows what it's actually like lol

Ok I saw that 90 degree corner you were talking about but still if this game doesn't have curved paths even at release I am going to be the first one to rage over forums :mad:.
Anyways the game seems to be using a new grid system,just notice the distance between the benches and flowerpots.

Deuce
06-24-2015, 04:40 AM
Anyways the game seems to be using a new grid system,just notice the distance between the benches and flowerpots.

I think it's the same sorta thing, just that the bins and pots are quarter tile pieces. In RCT3 you had quarter tile pieces too, but not for path scenery. It would be an improvement!

Still really is all about whether the game has actually 'moved on', not just got slightly prettier. And for a lot of people on here, a big part of moving on and expanding the freedom to build would be less rigid layout rules. such as path, grid, ride entrance placement etc.

At least this new picture does show the game has certainly moved on from the Area52 days.

JayB_Yolo
06-24-2015, 05:01 AM
I think it's the same sorta thing, just that the bins and pots are quarter tile pieces. In RCT3 you had quarter tile pieces too, but not for path scenery. It would be an improvement!

Still really is all about whether the game has actually 'moved on', not just got slightly prettier. And for a lot of people on here, a big part of moving on and expanding the freedom to build would be less rigid layout rules. such as path, grid, ride entrance placement etc.

At least this new picture does show the game has certainly moved on from the Area52 days.

Whatever it might be,this image has left us with so many unanswered questions.Even Matlsb has not explained about paths working in the blog but anyways the trees look good,far better than what we saw previously.

ExtraCheese
06-24-2015, 05:10 AM
Wow, this really looks good! So so so much better than the crap we saw in the gameplay trailer. I can't wait to see the rides, as they are important too! I'm also very curious about this new developer...!

Deuce
06-24-2015, 05:17 AM
I still am not to keen on the slightly false way things seem to be presented to us in these blogs. It gives the impression that whatever is said, no matter how exciting, may just be marketing waffle.

This bit for instance:


We’re just getting back from E3, after showing a number of Atari projects.

That to most people reading it would suggest Atari had exhibited several games at E3. But quite a few people know that they exhibited nothing 'at' E3 at all. Technically it's not a lie, but it's suggestive that they were more involved with E3 on an official basis that is the case.

I'm sure they met many people about many things in/around E3. But to phrase it like that looks like trying once again to dress something up as more impressive than it really is.

I could say 'I had dinner at the Waldorf Astoria New York' when in fact I stood outside in the rain and ate a sandwich. Technically I had dinner, and I was at the Waldorf - just like Atari were 'at' E3. But if I said that to someone and they knew I hadn't actually eaten in the restaurant, they would dismiss me as a person not to be fully trusted.

And then this bit:

'Rather than me talking about many of the new and improved features, I have asked the team to take a shot that simply shows them all off – including the rides.'

It's going to be very exciting to see a picture of all assets in place, but I have to question why Matt is at pains to point out it will be 'rather than talking about it'. Normally a picture says a thousand words, but this is computer game, and how things look is generally less important than how the behave and relate to each other in the game. It leaves me questioning whether the reason they don't want to discuss the finer details is because to do so would reveal a few short-cuts in development that we might not be to happy about. So many questions have been repeatedly asked about how key parts of the game will work and hardly any have been conclusively answered - most ignored altogether.

I just hope that Atari keep in mind that the PCSE trailer didn't just look good, it also focussed on showing that key things people had asked for, for so long, are included in the games design. Their team are also giving interviews last week/this week confirming many of the finer details about what is and is not included.

redyar
06-24-2015, 05:22 AM
Looks good to me, the bench has many polygons!

JayB_Yolo
06-24-2015, 05:31 AM
That to most people reading it would suggest Atari had exhibited several games at E3. But quite a few people know that they exhibited nothing 'at' E3 at all. Technically it's not a lie, but it's suggestive that they were more involved with E3 on an official basis that is the case.


You are right,this is the only thing I have seen from Atari(Atari Frisbess huh)http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/06/gallery-e3s-gone-toy-crazy-from-star-wars-to-atari-frisbees/ (its at bottom)

http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/IMG_4968-980x653.jpg

But it looks cool by the way:cool:.

RCTFan
06-24-2015, 05:45 AM
Finally the realism expected! great picture!!!

warly
06-24-2015, 05:49 AM
'Rather than me talking about many of the new and improved features, I have asked the team to take a shot that simply shows them all off – including the rides.'

It's going to be very exciting to see a picture of all assets in place, but I have to question why Matt is at pains to point out it will be 'rather than talking about it'. Normally a picture says a thousand words, but this is computer game, and how things look is generally less important than how the behave and relate to each other in the game. It leaves me questioning whether the reason they don't want to discuss the finer details is because to do so would reveal a few short-cuts in development that we might not be to happy about. So many questions have been repeatedly asked about how key parts of the game will work and hardly any have been conclusively answered - most ignored altogether.

You are being way to negative here. I'm sure Mattlab did say it because in his first blog posts he was only talking about the game without showing screenshots and people complained that there were only words. now he promised us real screenshots and people complain that there are no words. he will talk about it, but he will *not* just talk about it but show us some screenshots as well.

I'm really happy with the screenshot :D (could need some contrast but this will be done until release, i'm sure)
The game looks amazing from what you can see on the pic.

For me, the game could look (a bit) worse. Most important is the KI of the peeps. They are what makes the game alive and fun. 5 People standing in queue for this giant rollercoaster just opened a couple of days ago? (hello RCT3). That would really burn down the fun.

Sandsh8rk
06-24-2015, 06:00 AM
The screenshot looks nice! I would still like to see curved paths though, I hope we get a picture soon showcasing this. Can't wait for the next blog post!

AUS_Twisted
06-24-2015, 06:47 AM
Looks nice but that's a very narrow path for such a entrance.

Deuce
06-24-2015, 07:22 AM
You are being way to negative here. I'm sure Mattlab did say it because in his first blog posts he was only talking about the game without showing screenshots and people complained that there were only words. now he promised us real screenshots and people complain that there are no words. he will talk about it, but he will *not* just talk about it but show us some screenshots as well.

I'm really happy with the screenshot :D (could need some contrast but this will be done until release, i'm sure)
The game looks amazing from what you can see on the pic.

For me, the game could look (a bit) worse. Most important is the KI of the peeps. They are what makes the game alive and fun. 5 People standing in queue for this giant rollercoaster just opened a couple of days ago? (hello RCT3). That would really burn down the fun.

Ok, maybe a bit negative as a proper in game shot would clearly be a very good thing.

But your own comments above about peep behaviour is an example of something asked so many times and not confirming these things are being improved is a bit worrying. Hopefully Matt will give solid answers along with the next shot. But you have to admit confirmation of anything beyond appearance has been pretty thin on the ground so far.

Deuce
06-24-2015, 07:24 AM
Looks nice but that's a very narrow path for such a entrance.

I'm sure as in RCT3 it's possible to make wider paths - but that also messed up the peep path finding in RCT3. Hopefully wider more realistic path types will be included this time.

xmarkussxd
06-24-2015, 07:47 AM
Amazing! I wonder if this big reveal is the developer getting shown off or a trailer... They two words 'big reveal' tell many tales! Fingers crossed :) great work team RCTW!

Wabigbear
06-24-2015, 07:55 AM
I like what I see very much. Kudos!

TyrellCaesar
06-24-2015, 08:30 AM
Ohh great another narrow grid path. Don't understand the over reaction of this screenshot. Yes the graphics has improved as it should but we are still restricted to just the one sized path with 90 turns.

PixelPlayer
06-24-2015, 08:38 AM
Just not realistic parks!

You still need a grid for curves. For example using a Bézier curve to draw a path requires two world position points in the game. The only way to even remotely know where these two points are in your game is using a 2 dimensional grid. This is because your camera will be at a certain world position at any one time. Then the positions of everything else on the grid is how you view the world and what is on the pc screen and what is off the screen etc. Without the grid you have no way to draw things in the correct location.

Even the universe is referenced by a grid but in a 3D spherical way which is bit more complex. Such that Earth is position x:0, y:0, z:0. Then outwards in all directions is the positions of all the stars etc.

You could make the grid really small thus have lots of grids (this was the old way to make something looked curved) - how ever the more grids, the slower the game will run as the computer has to loop through each grid square for things like path finding for guests walking around, or to check if the grid is in the view of the camera and thus render the given ride/person/scenery for the user to see on their monitor etc.

So its not the grids that restrict such a thing, its whether the programmers know a clever way to implement curved paths that is easy to use for players (which can be a bit tricky). You can understand curves on a grid here: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=B%C3%A9zier_curve

Hope this was interesting to you :)

Wayne
06-24-2015, 08:42 AM
Wow.. Just wow. I can say it looks good but any news on if the park is going to be like in RCT2 and RCT3 where you have boundries? It would be cool if you "had boundaries" like in Cities Skylines but you can go buy the next huge plot of pland to keep building your park on? I can't recall anything about this info.

Also will we be able to create custom logos in like Adobe Programs and import them into the game to use them for ourselves to really make our parks "our parks"?

Deuce
06-24-2015, 08:42 AM
Ohh great another narrow grid path. Don't understand the over reaction of this screenshot. Yes the graphics has improved as it should but we are still restricted to just the one sized path with 90 turns.

I don't know if I'm more frustrated by Atari not challenging themselves to fundamentally move the game forwards (IE paths...) or by the initial fan-boy reactions to each blog post.

I worries me that Matt posts the blog, checks back a few hours later and sees nothing but positive comments and thinks 'job done!'.

But if you really look at what we have been shown, it looks like RCT3 with more polygons and a nod towards more realism. That is nothing to celebrate. No one should be impressed or thankful that after 12 years the game looks a lot better - of course it should look better. It's not news or something to be thankful for.

Truthfully, I have yet to see (or hear confirmation from Mattlab) of any single thing that actually moves the game on beyond RCT3 other than spline based coasters and multiplayer which like improved graphics, are really unavoidable now.

Please, if anyone can think of something I've missed then point it out and I'll apologise for my mistake.

Deuce
06-24-2015, 08:55 AM
You still need a grid for curves. For example using a Bézier curve to draw a path requires two world position points in the game. The only way to even remotely know where these two points are in your game is using a 2 dimensional grid. This is because you camera will be at a given position at any one time. Then the positions of everything else on the grid is how you view the world and what is on the pc screen and what is off the screen etc. Without the grid you have no way to draw things in the correct location.

Even the universe is referenced by a grid but in a 3D spherical way which is bit more complex. Such that Earth is position x:0, y:0, z:0. Then outwards in all directions is the positions of all the stars etc.

You could make the grid really small thus have lots of grids - how ever the more grids, the slower the game will run as the computer has to loop through each grid square for things like path finding for guests walking around, or to check if the grid is in the view of the camera and thus render the given ride/person/scenery for the user to see on their monitor etc.

So its not the grids that restrict such a thing, its whether the programmers know a clever way to implement curved paths that is easy to use for players (which can be a bit tricky). You can understand curves on a grid here: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=B%C3%A9zier_curve

Everything you're referring to relates to coordinates, which don't really forma grid as they are infinitely definable.

So far as the user experience of the game itself goes, the grid is currently still a single grid, with the assets taking up a set number of grid squares - everything is aligned to the grid (which is very different from being referenced to a grid).

The pathfinding of peeps can be managed by following path geometry, regardless of the grid. I also don't accept that multiple of more complex grids would in any meaningful way slow down the game - remember that as per your example, anything in a 3D space is being plotted constantly by the GPU regardless of whether it fits in with a visual or snap-to grid in the game.

The grid that I and probably everyone else to mention it on here is referring to is the grid design philosophy that Atari seem determined to stick with. I'm not surprised as it's a lot cheaper and easier to build a game like that. But as Cities:Skylines has demonstrated, everything you cite as a problem (pathfinding, geometry of curves etc) is all 100% achievable (using the same engine in fact).

If you look at the lines, orientation of objects and relation between objects in PCSE it appears they have kept the idea of a grid (which is basically a good thing as you want things to snap together for neatness in a game like this) but have created special path pieces to enable things to run off at angles, and meet up with rides etc that are mounted at angles. In the game footage there are straight paths mounted at 45 degree angles. There are also curved paths shown which looking at it, I suspect are pre-formed sections that include a curve but the two ends line back up with the grid.

Whatever way you flip it, the grid and path were key areas where the community wanted improvement and Atari could have made improvements. Yet they appear to not be doing so, whereas Frontier and others are.

EmSay
06-24-2015, 08:58 AM
YEAH!! the picture is Amazing!!!
Good job!

MrBob101
06-24-2015, 09:12 AM
Love the update! Unfortunately, this picture doesn't have a dino in it.:cool:

JayB_Yolo
06-24-2015, 09:16 AM
I don't know if I'm more frustrated by Atari not challenging themselves to fundamentally move the game forwards (IE paths...) or by the initial fan-boy reactions to each blog post.

I worries me that Matt posts the blog, checks back a few hours later and sees nothing but positive comments and thinks 'job done!'.

But if you really look at what we have been shown, it looks like RCT3 with more polygons and a nod towards more realism. That is nothing to celebrate. No one should be impressed or thankful that after 12 years the game looks a lot better - of course it should look better. It's not news or something to be thankful for.

Truthfully, I have yet to see (or hear confirmation from Mattlab) of any single thing that actually moves the game on beyond RCT3 other than spline based coasters and multiplayer which like improved graphics, are really unavoidable now.

Please, if anyone can think of something I've missed then point it out and I'll apologise for my mistake.

You forgot how even after 10 years there are still traffic lights on the stations.Really!!..I have never seen traffic lights on a single station in real life.Instead of traffic lights there should be gates.

Deuce
06-24-2015, 09:18 AM
You forgot how even after 10 years there are still traffic lights on the stations.Really!!..I have never seen traffic lights on a single station in real life.Instead of traffic lights there should be gates.

But without traffic lights, how do you know to put your coaster car in gear and set off? :)

JayB_Yolo
06-24-2015, 09:23 AM
But without traffic lights, how do you know to put your coaster car in gear and set off? :)

But there are no gears in coaster cars:confused:...they should add it in game then.Now it will make sense:cool:(LOL)

magicart87
06-24-2015, 09:37 AM
My Critique:

I think a lot of what is being shown here is pre-fab stuff from the Unity model library. What we are being shown however is a better handle on textures. More detail -- I like this! Models still look low-poly but are detailed.

The lighting in this shot looks a bit "finicky", almost like the gamma is too high causing the entire screenshot to look "flat" more like an illustration. That flatness is troubling -- there is little "depth" being shown which is odd considering the intense perspective of this screenshot. Depth adds Immersion.

I should mention that as good as everything looks...all the model objects seems to be competing with one another. I'm at a loss on where to focus my eyes. It's too busy! Realistic yes, but perhaps too much!

Again, I think the art direction is bordering on "non-existent" but I do appreciate the inclusion of the park mascot. This level of detail must be met across the entire game to work. I wish Atari well! Personally, I'd much rather an art-direction that befitting of RCT... but this I fear is just my personal preference.

Lastly, I leave my critique with one last note: The fixed camera perspective: It seems to be "shearing" the in-game field of view. Verticals are being warped. Columns, beams, walls, posts...etc should be 90 degrees straight-vertical. That said the Horizontal Axis can be slightly concave to create added immersion. Something I'm not seeing in this screenshot is LOD depth of field blurring. This may help! IDK.

Am I putting way to much thought into this screenshot? Absolutely! But it's the little things that cause bigger issues down the road!
This screenshot reveals much! But not enough to convenience me of "progress". I look forward to the next blog post.

To see this screenshot in it's full glory click here: http://www.rollercoastertycoon.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/PathSetUp_02.png (and enlarge)

Deuce
06-24-2015, 09:39 AM
But there are no gears in coaster cars:confused:...they should add it in game then.Now it will make sense:cool:(LOL)

All joking aside - it would make a lot more sense if they gave us video screens with the control box that sit either side of the track and activate when the restraints close. Just like on many real coasters. But they didn't, because that would mean the control box asset not being neatly contained within an exact 1 grid cell. And that would be harder to do, so we get a traffic light.

Deuce
06-24-2015, 09:45 AM
My Critique:

I think a lot of what is being shown here is pre-fab stuff from the Unity model library. What we are being shown however is a better handle on textures. More detail -- I like this! Models still look low-poly but are detailed.

The lighting in this shot looks a bit "finicky", almost like the gamma is too high causing the entire screenshot to look "flat" more like an illustration. That flatness is troubling -- there is little "depth" being shown which is odd considering the intense perspective of this screenshot.

I should mention that as good as everything looks...all the model objects seems to be competing with each another. I'm at a loss on where to focus my eyes. It's too busy! Realistic yes, but perhaps too much!

Again, I think the art direction is bordering on "non-existent" but I do appreciate the inclusion of the park mascot. This level of detail must be met across the entire game to work. I wish Atari well! Personally, I'd much rather an art-direction that befitting of RCT... but this I fear is just my personal preference.

Lastly, I leave my critique with one last note: The fixed camera perspective seems to be "shearing" the in-game field of view. Verticals are being warped. Columns, beams, walls, posts...etc should be 90 degrees straight-vertical. That said the Horizontal Axis can be slightly concave to create added immersion. Something I'm not seeing in this screenshot is LOD depth of field blurring. This may help! IDK.

Am I putting way to much thought into this screenshot? Absolutely! But it's the little things that cause bigger issues down the road!
This screenshot reveals much! But not enough to convenience me of "progress". I look forward to the next blog post.

Same. I too thought that depth of field would make a big difference. It's odd that it's not turned on as it's a standard Unity feature.

The art direction is also fair to question. It looks flat in more ways than one. It actually looks a little like a TPS screenshot - which is one of the most detailed, yet somehow blandest game worlds out there.

I think the missing ingredient here is 'joy', maybe 'passion'.

JayB_Yolo
06-24-2015, 09:50 AM
All joking aside - it would make a lot more sense if they gave us video screens with the control box that sit either side of the track and activate when the restraints close. Just like on many real coasters. But they didn't, because that would mean the control box asset not being neatly contained within an exact 1 grid cell. And that would be harder to do, so we get a traffic light.

They why can't they make station like 3x1.Let us solve the problem of space and really just improve the grid system and give us curved paths already.New paths really looks good and it would be a disgrace to them if they don't get curved.

Knobs
06-24-2015, 10:10 AM
Oh My God. Jezus Christ, this is totally going the right direction.
AWESOME .... WOW, i am so happy to be here from the beginning, ( one of those rational whiners ) and see this great evolution.
All i can say now is ... SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY.

Thank you so much for rebooting RCT.
And thank you so much for rebooting the first bad game engine.

I am totally stoked. YES YES YES YES !!!!

Deuce
06-24-2015, 10:15 AM
Oh My God. Jezus Christ, this is totally going the right direction.
AWESOME .... WOW, i am so happy to be here from the beginning, ( one of those rational whiners ) and see this great evolution.
All i can say now is ... SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY.

Thank you so much for rebooting RCT.
And thank you so much for rebooting the first bad game engine.

I am totally stoked. YES YES YES YES !!!!

What exactly has you so excited? I mean what part of that screen is better than you would expect as the minimum for a new RCT game?

The Stig
06-24-2015, 10:25 AM
It's realism! RCT went for realism!!! Yes!!!
*opens bottle of wine*

f4a10
06-24-2015, 10:31 AM
What exactly has you so excited? I mean what part of that screen is better than you would expect as the minimum for a new RCT game?

I'm wondering the same haha

magicart87
06-24-2015, 10:37 AM
It's realism! RCT went for realism!!! Yes!!!
*opens bottle of wine*

Yes. A toast to mediocrity! Generic themepark sim for the win!


Oh My God. Jezus Christ, this is totally going the right direction.
AWESOME .... WOW, i am so happy to be here from the beginning, ( one of those rational whiners ) and see this great evolution.
All i can say now is ... SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY.

Thank you so much for rebooting RCT.
And thank you so much for rebooting the first bad game engine.

I am totally stoked. YES YES YES YES !!!!

I'm not seeing what you're seeing.

Deuce
06-24-2015, 10:44 AM
It's realism! RCT went for realism!!! Yes!!!
*opens bottle of wine*

I guess I prefer realism to stupidly cartoonish- something that RCT3 was guilty of. But, this just looks flat somehow. All depends on hiw extensive the final scenery is I suppose, and also lighting could be a little more dramatic and warmer - especially given the presence of palm trees.

magicart87
06-24-2015, 10:45 AM
I guess I prefer realism to stupidly cartoonish- something that RCT3 was guilty of. But, this just looks flat somehow. All depends on hiw extensive the final scenery is I suppose, and also lighting could be a little more dramatic and warmer - especially given the presence of palm trees.

Agreed. It lacks character. It's sterile like TPS.

Deuce
06-24-2015, 10:49 AM
Let's get a big grip on reality here.

People are over excited about recent shots of RCTW simply because it's not as bad as we feared. But in truth, there is nothing in that image that you wouldn't rightfully expect of any game in 2015. But I'm not so sure it qualifies as a 'AAA','premium' game just yet.

Compare that to the first visuals of PCSE where pretty much every comment on these forums ignored the graphics (as they're obviously good so there is no debate to be had) and instead went straight to praising the art style. Which is very realistic where it should be, but also a little 'off the scale' generally, exactly like a real theme park.

sourcerage17
06-24-2015, 11:13 AM
I actually got the biggest smile on my face as soon as i seen the screenshot, couldnt be happier with the progress shown so far...


Keep it up, looking forward to the next big reveal... trailer?

0BobTheJanitor
06-24-2015, 11:16 AM
People are over excited about recent shots of RCT3 simply because it's not as bad as we feared. But in truth, there is nothing in that image that you wouldn't rightfully expect of any game in 2015. But I'm not so sure it qualifies as a 'AAA','premium' game just yet.

I don't think this comes down to the image contents, but the medium it's presented in. There is no motion shown in the image, so while it looks good static it's hard to tell if it will look good in motion.

IMO it's fine at the moment, but it cannot be amazing until we see a video of it, and that's perfectly okay at this moment in time.

(However that path looks a little cramped :confused:)

Kombiice
06-24-2015, 11:18 AM
Really naais ^^ Excited for that game :P (this year, wow :O)

BeerWhiskers
06-24-2015, 11:24 AM
Thanks for the post - I like what I see in the screenshot.

I havent seen anyone else comment on the tree on the left that is occupying the same grid as a flower bed. Excellent! A subtle thing, but something that I thought was a silly limitation in previous games. Good to see, I hope it stays.

Deuce
06-24-2015, 11:25 AM
I don't think this comes down to the image contents, but the medium it's presented in. There is no motion shown in the image, so while it looks good static it's hard to tell if it will look good in motion.

IMO it's fine at the moment, but it cannot be amazing until we see a video of it, and that's perfectly okay at this moment in time.

(However that path looks a little cramped :confused:)

Sure it 'ok' but I don't get why people are saying they're amazed and excited by it. I really do think that many on here had such low expectations since the trailer that they're now impressed by anything.

It's clearly a step in the right direction of course - which is good. But imo this brings us back to the level of 'acceptable', not 'wow'.

Yes the path is cramped. Makes me fear they don't have wider paths planned and didn't want to double up on the path thickness as it would confuse peep path finding.

The Stig
06-24-2015, 11:28 AM
What I like about it, personally: the graphics look great. It's a vast improvement over what we saw 4 months ago, undeniably. The textures and shadows work great. Nothing looks flat and dull anymore. The cobblestones look like cobblestones, the trees look leafy, the schnozzberries taste like schnozzberries. The colors are warm and vibrant. There are hints of mascot theming everywhere. It’s not bam in your face, it’s subtle and charming. The entrance itself is warm and inviting. I look at this and immediately want to start plopping rides. I think of the potential this park could have with me as manager. More importantly, I’m happy that it doesn’t look the same as Planet Coaster.

If anything, it reminds me of the Forest Frontiers entrance. And if that’s what the devs were going for, then hats off to them.

DragonHuntah
06-24-2015, 11:33 AM
Deuce,
I respect your opinion but still i'm sorry to say this.
Almost Every post you post is negative why?

It's way better then when Area52 was in in development team
you are only talking about the path system. They haven't said what the path system will be like.

Up to the good news:
I like the progress they are making since the new dev team! The grapichs are 10 times better then the trailer. Now lets hope that it will even get better!

Sorry i posted this. it bothered me.
I got irritated of the negativity. and the lack of positivity about the game

magicart87
06-24-2015, 11:41 AM
Deuce,
I respect your opinion but still i'm sorry to say this.
Almost Every post you post is negative why?

It's way better then when Area52 was in in development team
you are only talking about the path system who knows this is the way the maker of the picture wanted it this way. they haven't said what the path system will be like.

Sorry i posted this. it bothered me.
I got irritated of the negativity. and the lack of positivity about the game

I can't and won't speak for Deuce but I hope myself and others are posting "negative" feedback to further improve the game. It's simple. I can praise what I like and provide feedback when I don't particularly like something. It's a forum discussion. What good is a discussion when it's one-sided? If RCT World fandom was fueled by "Yes! men" and "Yes! women" then we'd likely be stuck with the Area 52 abomination. It's only a critique.

I stand by my points here: https://forum.rollercoastertycoon.com/showthread.php?3591-RollerCoaster-Tycoon-World-Production-Blog-11&p=21037&viewfull=1#post21037

Other's are fine with the progression of the game. Myself, not so much.

JayB_Yolo
06-24-2015, 11:42 AM
Yes the path is cramped. Makes me fear they don't have wider paths planned and didn't want to double up on the path thickness as it would confuse peep path finding.

But really why wider paths would confuse peeps like developers would have updated peep path finding.Really at this time devs know the challenges they would be facing from their rival PCSE.It would be their biggest mistake if they didn't implement better paths and the game would get shot down only on this single topic.

DragonHuntah
06-24-2015, 11:46 AM
I hope myself and others are posting "negative" feedback to further improve the game.

I'm not saying you can't be negative. I know the game should have negative feedback.

But i think if you are only negative to the dev's that they will get unmotivated.

0BobTheJanitor
06-24-2015, 11:48 AM
Deuce,
I respect your opinion but still i'm sorry to say this.
Almost Every post you post is negative why?

It's way better then when Area52 was in in development team
you are only talking about the path system. They haven't said what the path system will be like.

Up to the good news:
I like the progress they are making since the new dev team! The grapichs are 10 times better then the trailer. Now lets hope that it will even get better!

Sorry i posted this. it bothered me.
I got irritated of the negativity. and the lack of positivity about the game

Some people are optimistic, and some people are pessimistic. But the third category people seem to overlook is realistic, which is arguably the best of the two.

Deuce
06-24-2015, 11:48 AM
Deuce,
I respect your opinion but still i'm sorry to say this.
Almost Every post you post is negative why?

It's way better then when Area52 was in in development team
you are only talking about the path system. They haven't said what the path system will be like.

Up to the good news:
I like the progress they are making since the new dev team! The grapichs are 10 times better then the trailer. Now lets hope that it will even get better!

Sorry i posted this. it bothered me.
I got irritated of the negativity. and the lack of positivity about the game

Why am I being negative? Because this image was handed to us as if it were something exciting and it just isn't. Everything about it is ok.

And read your own words. You're saying it's good because it's better than area52 or te trailer. But so it should be. I'm not negative, I'm neutral at this stage. I'm only really frustrated by people getting over excited at this because it's really just a screenshot of a perfectly average looking game for 2015.

cap396
06-24-2015, 11:54 AM
I like the new screen shot. I think things are (now) going in the right direction. I'll be excited to see more and get more info in the future.

Deuce
06-24-2015, 11:55 AM
Some people are optimistic, and some people are pessimistic. But the third category people seem to overlook is realistic, which is arguably the best of the two.

Quite right, I'm trying to be 100% realistic and take into account everything. I'm not going to flail dramatically between 'wow this is rubbish' to 'wow this is good'.

For me that screen isn't good or bad, it's just what you might expect from a current sim game. The inclusion of squared path corners is of course negative. It's unambitious. It's as simple as that.

Should Mattlab rock up next week with an announcement about curved paths, I will duly note that as a very positive step. But that will still be a realistic opinion, not an ott reaction one way or the other.

DragonHuntah
06-24-2015, 11:57 AM
Why am I being negative? Because this image was handed to us as if it were something exciting and it just isn't. Everything about it is ok.

And read your own words. You're saying it's good because it's better than area52 or te trailer. But so it should be. I'm not negative, I'm neutral at this stage. I'm only really frustrated by people getting over excited at this because it's really just a screenshot of a perfectly average looking game for 2015.

Me to, I think it isn't that exciting but it did improve since the last picture we saw.

The Stig
06-24-2015, 12:03 PM
Now I’d like to address the “grid” debate. Look at the width of the first bench on the left. Now compare it to the width of the trashcan and two flower planters next to it. They are not the same width. Even more, notice how the trashcan is to the left of the two planters, instead of in the middle. This isn’t the same placement method we're used to. There’s something else going on here.

Now take a look at this first banner on the right. Look at it’s base. Look where it’s at. It looks like it’s level with the edge of the first tile of flowers and the edge of the path between the bench and planters. This banner isn’t sitting in the center of a “tile”. Something else is going on here.

Look at the width of the path. And compare it to the width of the grass behind it. Notice how the flowers, lightpoles, and banners, don’t “fill” a “tile”. They’re different. One of them has a tree in the middle. But wait, it gets better.

Let’s count the number of “tiles” that has path. We’ve got 3 sets of benches and 3 sets of planters. Okay, 6 tiles. Now lets count the tiles of scenery behind them. We got 3 lights and 3 banners. Okay, 6 tiles again. But wait. What about that fence back there? How many fence pieces can we see? I see 9 on the left. But that can’t be right. What, fences are 1/3 tile now? There’s more going on here.

Conclusion: If this entrance was built using a grid, then it’s working differently than the grid we’re used to.

Sandsh8rk
06-24-2015, 12:04 PM
I did notice one thing with the image...(click to see whole thing)
482
If you look where I've circled, you can clearly see the face of the Americana Mascot embedded on the entrance. But in blog post 5, Mattlab said they were taking a pass on the Americana theme so they could focus more on realism in game. I'm a little bit intrigued with this...

JayB_Yolo
06-24-2015, 12:15 PM
Nice explanation "The Stig". Grid system either seems to have got more grids or there is really something else going on as placements look weird as distance of separation seems to different for everything,like the one between paths and flower bed.Even the tree seems to be placed really close to flower bed.

Menno
06-24-2015, 12:39 PM
So what's annoying me is that the dev's never seem to be able to do anything right. Months ago people complained that there wouldn't be a generic theme, which as I said way back then the Americana theme would be. Now they are showing a screenshot from the generic Americana theme and people are berating the dev's for the screenshot looking to generic. Please make up your mind.

As for the curved paths: don't hold your breath about that. In an earlier post they stated that paths would be on grid. Sure it was before the trailer backlash but as I understand it it is tied with the AI and I'm guessing something you program early in the development of the game. Besides I'm probably the only one that actually saw potential (but also being disappointed) in the gameplay footage we've seen from RCTW. Because even though most textures and models looked very unfinished the models they'd used in screenshots they'd shown in the weeks before that actually showed what the game was capable of.

As for PC: Yes the trailer looked awesome but it also was just a comic to wet the appetite. There is no guarantee that the actual game will look like this. To be honest for both games I'll wait until I see some gameplay footage before deciding to buy or not.

magicart87
06-24-2015, 12:44 PM
I did notice one thing with the image...(click to see whole thing)
482
If you look where I've circled, you can clearly see the face of the Americana Mascot embedded on the entrance. But in blog post 5, Mattlab said they were taking a pass on the Americana theme so they could focus more on realism in game. I'm a little bit intrigued with this...

I'm fairly sure that doesn't have anything to do with Americana theme. That mascot is there for "art direction" and "branding" of the game. It's needed to let you know your playing RCT World and not other similar-looking games. I hope more art direction will be incorporated.

rct-uwe
06-24-2015, 12:48 PM
In general I like the new screenshot but there's something missing...
It's a bit sterile and flat.

Mattlab said that they will improve the path system as they just finished the coaster designer...
(He should tell us if they're still focused on the grid based "park elements" or get rid of the grid.)

I'm still hoping that this means curved paths! Maybe they could use a modificated coaster designer or something similar spline based for paths and tracked rides.

For paths they could do something like a rail with snap points (where other pahts, stalls and rides can attach) at every x metres. You just draw a line, set the width and pull the snap points to create the curves or whatever forms you want.

For tracked rides they could use a coaster designer lite version (but still a combination of freeform and pieces possible).

banjoboyslim
06-24-2015, 12:49 PM
I am seriously so stoked for this. I still play RCT3 a lot. This will be super fun to have. I remember discovering and download the RCT1 demo before the full game had come out. I played that thing for hours and hours even though it was a continuous loop of limited game play. When this game is out my life is officially over.

glychd1001
06-24-2015, 12:55 PM
I'm getting more and more excited with each blog post!

cristianocdaniel
06-24-2015, 01:01 PM
Everything is so neat! I'm loving. The textures and shadows are pretty realistic. I'LL NEED A NEW COMPUTER HAHA

The Stig
06-24-2015, 01:03 PM
Look way in the back behind the last fence.
Is that landscaping I see?

Sir Isaac
06-24-2015, 01:05 PM
I don't know why there's a bunch of Robin Raccoon decor... I thought they said they dropped the whole "theme" thing. Other than that, I like what I see... But I still need to see much more.

JayB_Yolo
06-24-2015, 01:06 PM
Look way in the back behind the last fence.
Is that landscaping I see?

Seems to be..but wait are those really big rocks!!

CaseyCBeard
06-24-2015, 01:07 PM
I am excited to see anything new come from the Devs. I think this new pic looks great and also love the placement of the trashcans/trees/benches/and lights (which are no longer ON the paths it seems). As Matt said, this is one of the devs own parks so it is built the way they may want to see a park built. Also, he explained that they want to show a pic of the groundwork first, then move on to other items for us to see. I personally am grateful that we're getting little updates with pics monthly if not more. At least we know progress is being made.

davadude
06-24-2015, 01:11 PM
Now this looks good!

keeper262
06-24-2015, 01:11 PM
I think the screenshot looks great! I am getting more and more excited for this game!

Stream
06-24-2015, 01:17 PM
483

Look what some simple saturation and contrast can do for a picture.

The Stig
06-24-2015, 01:20 PM
483483

Look what some simple saturation and contrast can do for a picture.

You made it look like it's later in the day.

Stream
06-24-2015, 01:31 PM
You made it look like it's later in the day.

Lol, a little I guess. I just felt like the original picture looked crazy washed out, lifeless almost.

The Stig
06-24-2015, 01:32 PM
Anyone else notice the picture is taken from a first-person POV?

magicart87
06-24-2015, 01:36 PM
Yes. I like it! Although I'm not too fond of the camera distortion this view creates. Posts and columns could stand to be 90dgrees vertical I think. But yes I hope there's something to THAT! First Person POV is a MUST!

greenstranger
06-24-2015, 01:58 PM
Looks a lot better than Trailer art. I hope you guys are considering making a new one.

rct-uwe
06-24-2015, 02:05 PM
483

Look what some simple saturation and contrast can do for a picture.

Thank you, that's what I needed...

The Stig
06-24-2015, 02:10 PM
Yes. I like it! Although I'm not too fond of the camera distortion this view creates. Posts and columns could stand to be 90dgrees vertical I think. But yes I hope there's something to THAT! First Person POV is a MUST!

Yes. A first person camera has been pretty high on RCT's wishlist.
This may be their way of hinting at it.

BRUXXUS
06-24-2015, 02:23 PM
Being able to walk around the park in 1st person would be so incredibly fun, especially when you add in the multiplayer/workshop aspect. It'd be so fun to walk around my park with a few friends and to ride rides and watch fireworks or something.

0BobTheJanitor
06-24-2015, 02:28 PM
483

Look what some simple saturation and contrast can do for a picture.

RCTW should have color correction like Cities: Skylines

magicart87
06-24-2015, 02:59 PM
http://s14.postimg.org/4mzdlgf81/screenshot.jpg

I can't tell if this is better or not. I think more vibrant colors help. Maybe realism with slightly saturated colors and exaggerated textures is all this game needs. As long as it's not a direct copy of PCSE or TPS I'll be happy.


Yes. A first person camera has been pretty high on RCT's wishlist.
This may be their way of hinting at it.

Tired of hints though. I want facts, dang it! ;)

mev202
06-24-2015, 03:00 PM
Stealth at Thorpe Park has traffic lights.

dwwilkin
06-24-2015, 03:26 PM
Sorry Mattlab but it looks like the community has spoken and nothing will ever be right, no matter what. The realists certainly will not be satisfied unless we can zoom into the flower with it at nose distance, each petal not just a different shade of color, but multi shaded within the petal as a natural flower, and in nature, we know that nothing looks the same, no twin flowers, so each one must be different than any other. This must carry through the entire park, and all fauna therein. One would argue that the wood tones must each also look different, but veneer are shaved from the tree very thinly, as thin as paper, and so, there you have an out with a repeating pattern, but after a few iterations of that pattern repeating, it too must change subtle, else the realists will point out that even a wood veneer siding can not stay consistent over a period of many feet. All this must also carry through for the Nits, those insects that will promulgate the park, for else, what would Nitpicking Peeps have to latch onto and squeeze so hard that all the innards will pop?

OTR24
06-24-2015, 03:27 PM
Hats off to the new dev team. It looks like you realy turned this game around. The lighting and the shaders is what caught my eye. The background looks awesome. All very well done. Still no clouds hmm... Finger crossed. Also no curved path as others have commented. Got to love the racoon banners :D

magicart87
06-24-2015, 04:02 PM
On a scale of 1 - 10 (1 = Amazing : 10 = Awful)
How satisfied is everyone with this screenshot based on your own criteria?

magicart87
06-24-2015, 04:03 PM
Judging from some of these posts, that’s how they intend to play the game, too.

which posts?

The Stig
06-24-2015, 04:04 PM
On a scale of 1 - 10 (1 = Amazing : 10 = Awful)
How satisfied is everyone with this screenshot based on your own criteria?


2. Would play.

EDIT: Oops. I meant 2. I went the wrong way.

ddrplaya4638
06-24-2015, 04:24 PM
Strange that there is so much negativity.

Awesome shot, 100% makes me super excited for this game . I'm sure we will here more about paths and stuff coming up but it is nice to see something in game not just models.

Hats off to you new team. Bravo!

0BobTheJanitor
06-24-2015, 04:41 PM
On a scale of 1 - 10 (1 = Amazing : 10 = Awful)
How satisfied is everyone with this screenshot based on your own criteria?

Shouldn't it be the other way? 1 being poor and 10 being amazing?

JaydenIrwin
06-24-2015, 04:48 PM
Looks great! But can we not have the raccoon logo thing everywhere please?

Badikaks
06-24-2015, 04:50 PM
I hope the engine is powerfull enouhg to fill out an entire park. And a variaty that maintain interest and challengine gameplay
RTC 3 was nearly perfect (2004)
There is a lot of expectation

Varhaatus
06-24-2015, 05:14 PM
And the dev team is ... Area 52 ..... Wouldn't you just die from being so negative. Made a secret to calm the backlash and give them a chance to work properly with out reading negativity.

As for the screenshot ... Kind of look like what i'd expect in a 2015 release, im neither impressed nor disappointed.

LilyValley
06-24-2015, 05:21 PM
That screenshot is just gorgeous! I love all of those path accents. I do enjoy how it appears to be in first person.

1wolffan
06-24-2015, 06:23 PM
All I'm thinking with this picture is...
Oh gawd. I hope I don't have to start saving up for a new computer to run this game. The graphics themselves look nice and detailed, but if you get an entire park loaded up with that stuff, it'll be a workload for your computer. Not everyone can afford a new computer on a whim. As a matter of fact, I've been unemployed for almost four years now, and scraping together for my current computer took 3 years just to get something that works.

Also, why are those colors so washed out? The park needs more saturation, and contrast, and... COLOR. You know, like that picture someone put up.

Orbitron
06-24-2015, 06:33 PM
What a difference just updating to a newer version of a game engine makes! Looks fantastic.

A lot of people are complaining about the gridded paths, but we've got to remember this isn't just a simulator - it's a game targeted at a lot of types of people, and some of them won't want the complications of bendy paths. Then again, it was quite simple in the new SimCity when making roads. But in SimCity, they made the whole game based around roads. All buildings had to be attached to roads, the electricity ran through roads, etc, whereas this is different. It makes collision detection very difficult without a grid.

Direct+
06-24-2015, 06:46 PM
PLEASE do not make the snow on the mountains due to the height of a mountain. Or for that matter, rock or fauna, etc. I want that to be decided by the player not the game.

Also, it looks amazing. So crisp *~*

Orbitron
06-24-2015, 06:55 PM
PLEASE do not make the snow on the mountains due to the height of a mountain. Or for that matter, rock or fauna, etc. I want that to be decided by the player not the game.

Also, it looks amazing. So crisp *~*

I get the impression that's a map background element you have no control over.

0BobTheJanitor
06-24-2015, 07:29 PM
What a difference just updating to a newer version of a game engine makes! Looks fantastic.

More than just an engine update.

Indiglow
06-24-2015, 07:30 PM
#1 thing people are asking for on every idea/suggestion thread is curved paths.


Here's to hoping it's being considered...

Orbitron
06-24-2015, 07:32 PM
More than just an engine update.

Yes, but I was thinking more in terms of lighting and whatnot which would be dealt with by the engine. :)

Angel
06-24-2015, 07:38 PM
Also, why are those colors so washed out? The park needs more saturation, and contrast, and... COLOR. You know, like that picture someone put up.
I agree. Still, the picture looks promising.

As for the mountain in the background, is that just a background image or is it made with terraforming tools? I hope we'll get to see some obvious terraforming in the next picture you guys show us, because for me, a hughly improved (and less buggy!) version of the RCT3 terraforming tools is just as important as curved paths.

RCT D!
06-24-2015, 07:51 PM
Ok, that picture impressed me and convinced me. RCTW is going to look like that stuff? Awesome. And yes, I think the competition among Planet Coaster and RCTW will effect that both developers will exert themselves. I am curious about the result: which game will remain? Will the community be devided into two parts?

magicart87
06-24-2015, 07:53 PM
I get the impression that's a map background element you have no control over.

Yeah, it looks like a background not physical model. One idea I wrote about in the idea request thread was the ability to import our own backgrounds. just an idea. I do hope we get more backgrounds other than "snowcaped mountainscape"

Future RCT
06-24-2015, 07:58 PM
That picture looks really nice. If the final game looks like that, I'll be really satisfied.

Duivelbryan
06-24-2015, 08:53 PM
Ok, that picture impressed me and convinced me. RCTW is going to look like that stuff? Awesome. And yes, I think the competition among Planet Coaster and RCTW will effect that both developers will exert themselves. I am curious about the result: which game will remain? Will the community be devided into two parts?
why can't people play both ? this is very realistic (i think) and planet coaster is more cartoonish/arcade

MrStripy
06-24-2015, 09:14 PM
I see straight paths.

MrStripy
06-24-2015, 09:15 PM
The turns aren't curved on the path.

qbmaster
06-24-2015, 09:27 PM
Summary of reactions:

* Curved paths! Wider paths!
* Realistic but washed out, flat. Missing the necessary flair.
* Looks amazing! Soooo excited.
* Needs more saturation, color depth.
* I hope my computer can run this.
* Eh it's ok.

Devs should listen closely. The peeps have spoken.

qbmaster
06-24-2015, 09:50 PM
Now, my spin:

All of what the above peeps said holds true. The image looks a bit bland. However, the simple edits that people did made them 100% better. That means what's wrong with the image is easily fixed!

It's important, along with the realism, to keep that air of fantasy. This is a theme park, and although people want it to be an immersive experience, I think they also want it to be fun. Things should be a bit more eye-popping than normal (think GTA 5 sports car. Make it shiny and colorful and jump out.)

490

My take on the graphics? Well...I think a modded Skyrim looks better..and that's a couple years old now. Textures are still a bit unoptimized (grass, for instance) and not quite as crisp as they could be. Though much, much better than they were. Regarding people wondering if they'll be able to play the game on their rigs, there will have to be graphics controls for that -- those who can play on maximum settings should be WOW'ed by the graphics, while those who can't should be able to tone down things to work on their PCs. But if you were at that E3 conference, you certainly saw some of the upcoming game trailers. And the graphics alone on some of them are enough to make gamers drool. You have much competition.

486487488489

http://images.gamersyde.com/image_tom_clancy_s_ghost_recon_wildlands-28602-3282_0003.jpg
https://a248.e.akamai.net/f/50/31/6/static1.gamespot.com/uploads/original/1197/11970954/2886251-ff7_remake_01.jpg
http://www.abload.de/img/tesv2012-01-0414-12-1njxse.png

And sorry, but I think you're gonna have to include more dynamic paths to make this work :) Ain't a theme park in the entire world which has full 90 degree paths. People are right about this.

Keep going though, because I see great potential. We all are providing constructive criticism because we want to see you create A GREAT GAME. And the fact that we're all still here offering our thoughts means we think you can do that!

coaster
06-24-2015, 09:50 PM
Thee vegetation looks very realistic, especially the palm trees. It looks like the game has turned the corner, and is definetly going in the right direction.

josh.gordon4
06-24-2015, 10:09 PM
"I guess I prefer realism to stupidly cartoonish- something that RCT3 was guilty of. But, this just looks flat somehow. All depends on how extensive the final scenery is I suppose, and also lighting could be a little more dramatic and warmer - especially given the presence of palm trees."

Careful what you wish for people. I'm a big-time reader/very small time poster here. I think about 90% of the comments regarding look and feel on this board ask for more realism. Well, you got it! What did you think that Atari was going to do what that onslaught of advice? If your answer was: "Make a game that looks exactly like that screenshot that now you aren't happy with," you were right.

magicart87
06-24-2015, 10:18 PM
"I guess I prefer realism to stupidly cartoonish- something that RCT3 was guilty of. But, this just looks flat somehow. All depends on how extensive the final scenery is I suppose, and also lighting could be a little more dramatic and warmer - especially given the presence of palm trees."

Careful what you wish for people. I'm a big-time reader/very small time poster here. I think about 90% of the comments regarding look and feel on this board ask for more realism. Well, you got it! What did you think that Atari was going to do what that onslaught of advice? If your answer was: "Make a game that looks exactly like that screenshot that now you aren't happy with," you were right.

Exactly my thoughts. Everyone keeps throwing the word "realistic" around, when they presumably mean "high detail". I know there are some out there that truly want a super-uber photorealistic game. But myself; I'd rather just highly-detailed visuals, where appropriate.

It can still feel "toony", another word that is used incorrectly on the forum, without losing the high-detail we are all wanting. In my opinion this screenshot is very average. While the detail is there, there's also a serious lack of charm and character. But if that's what you guys want...

RCTW1
06-24-2015, 10:40 PM
Wow, finally something that looks very nice!

k1ng r4t
06-24-2015, 10:53 PM
k1ng R. is excited for a new game!

k1ng R. is bored.

k1ng R. wants more rides.

k1ng R. has to go to the bathroom.

JayB_Yolo
06-25-2015, 12:30 AM
I wonder how those low poly,cartoony peeps would look like in this scenario.

maxfreak
06-25-2015, 01:22 AM
"I guess I prefer realism to stupidly cartoonish- something that RCT3 was guilty of. But, this just looks flat somehow. All depends on how extensive the final scenery is I suppose, and also lighting could be a little more dramatic and warmer - especially given the presence of palm trees."

Careful what you wish for people. I'm a big-time reader/very small time poster here. I think about 90% of the comments regarding look and feel on this board ask for more realism. Well, you got it! What did you think that Atari was going to do what that onslaught of advice? If your answer was: "Make a game that looks exactly like that screenshot that now you aren't happy with," you were right.

QFT. I think the screenshot (if real, we have been through this before last year) looks fantastic. Can it look better? Anything can always look better, but I am highly satisfied with it if the final product delivers just that. But I do find it funny people are now b******* about how it looks too real or washed out...LOL seriously?! That's like 70% of the comments I see on an off this forum about what people want in the next RCT. Someone else mentioned they don't want this to end up like Pantera's Theme Park Studio, which I agree on. That game is absolutely drab and devoid of any style or substance in it's visuals. However the screenshot here has a very nice soft textured look to it which I can totally get behind.

But we are all entitled to our opinion. ;)

AUS_Twisted
06-25-2015, 01:38 AM
"I guess I prefer realism to stupidly cartoonish- something that RCT3 was guilty of. But, this just looks flat somehow. All depends on how extensive the final scenery is I suppose, and also lighting could be a little more dramatic and warmer - especially given the presence of palm trees."

Careful what you wish for people. I'm a big-time reader/very small time poster here. I think about 90% of the comments regarding look and feel on this board ask for more realism. Well, you got it! What did you think that Atari was going to do what that onslaught of advice? If your answer was: "Make a game that looks exactly like that screenshot that now you aren't happy with," you were right.

I wouldn't exactly call this screenshot realistic, almost looks like a instagram shot with a crappy filter that is very washed out.

sneakysnake
06-25-2015, 02:04 AM
Looks great, but whoever designed this, what's up with the narrow lane? It's almost as narrow as an alleyway!

Vince Conquest
06-25-2015, 04:21 AM
I've been waiting for this game for a long time and I was excited until I started seeing the screenshots. It looks like graphics from 2006. Nothing's independent. The flowers are just a painted bitmap in the trees look like polygons with the painted bitmap on top of them. The other day I saw the previews of planet coaster, the makers of the roller coaster tycoon 3 game for some reason I do not know why Atari did not get these people back on board. But their new game planet coaster is unbelievable. It's the graphics and art design of today's games. Atari, I know you have tried but for some reason your project managers are just not getting it done. I don't know if their friends or people that have been there for years that have not reeducate themselves in computer gaming design. I don't know what it is. But this picture looks like something that taking from home and garden design programs. I just don't see it. If I were you all. I would be calling frontier games and getting them to change the name of their game to roller coaster tycoon world. I just have a funny feeling that this game is going to bankrupt you. Good luck. Depending on how the gameplay is will be the decision of which one I go with. But after seeing planet coaster's video you're going to have to have a lot of good gameplaying to win me back.

ExtraCheese
06-25-2015, 04:52 AM
Looks great, but whoever designed this, what's up with the narrow lane? It's almost as narrow as an alleyway!

I think it's because they wanted to show as much as possible in a screenshot :)

Deuce
06-25-2015, 05:19 AM
I think the trees rocks and grass are all direct form Unity's own library - which is no bad thing, but would explain why to some people the art direction seems a little mixed up.

If so, here is a vid showing how the trees *could* move about in the wind: http://www.speedtree.com/unity/

The only problem I see if they're using Unity's own stuff like this is that it's going to look a bit odd if the ridesa and other assets aren't as beautifully detailed and realistic as the Unity assets!

JayB_Yolo
06-25-2015, 05:35 AM
I think the trees rocks and grass are all direct form Unity's own library - which is no bad thing, but would explain why to some people the art direction seems a little mixed up.

If so, here is a vid showing how the trees *could* move about in the wind: http://www.speedtree.com/unity/

The only problem I see if they're using Unity's own stuff like this is that it's going to look a bit odd if the ridesa and other assets aren't as beautifully detailed and realistic as the Unity assets!

So that means we could be possibly getting some realistic wind simulation similar to what we saw in TPS.I would also look cool if leaves also could shed.(I am not 100% sure but I think leaves shed in PCSE as I saw leaves below tress in that 34 second video on their website)

Ramadrigo
06-25-2015, 08:39 AM
The graphics are really great :D

I just advise on checking the form of the leaves of palm trees. I am Brazilian and see palm trees everyday so what I can suggest is to modify the leaves, as the palm trees dont have trunks on the leaves ;)

Aquanasia
06-25-2015, 08:54 AM
The graphics are really great :D

I just advise on checking the form of the leaves of palm trees. I am Brazilian and see palm trees everyday so what I can suggest is to modify the leaves, as the palm trees dont have trunks on the leaves ;)

Good point! also, THIS LOOKS AMAZING! I am so exited for this game to come out! Keep the posts comming!

SpookyParkGuy
06-25-2015, 09:56 AM
Just not realistic parks!

This is rollercoaster tycoon.. it's NEVER been about making realistic parks. it's about having FUN, making a theme park. i have never cared for the game to be ultra-realistic. realism doesn't make the game, though i understand some gamers prefer the aesthetics of a game. in which case, the said photo looks A LOT better than previous screen shots. so i say, keep up the good work guys! All that being said, curved walking paths would be nice, but not in the sense of realism. I just don't like the look of curving paths with straight lines. maybe implement the way we can build coasters any way we want, with paths as well... right? as easy as copy, paste! lol.. riiiiight.

Deuce
06-25-2015, 10:34 AM
This is rollercoaster tycoon.. it's NEVER been about making realistic parks.

I think the thousands of youtube videos where people have worked tirelessly to try and make RCT3 parks as realistic as possible suggest that for a lot of people, it very much is about realism.

Obviously not photo-realistic levels, it's fine for it to be, and look like a game. The problem with the paths though is that unlike most other parts of the game(s) they don't work like real paths in a real theme park. You can't curve them round a curved ride, or have a path snaking off into some woods. You also can't make wider paths unless you double up on the tiles which leads the pathfinding AI to go wrong. Throughout RCTW development there has been every sign that Atari simply aren't going to evolve the way paths work at all.

That may change since the PCSE trailer made it very obvious they were doing a lot more with paths. To me it looks like the PCSE paths will work, like you say, in a similar way to roller coaster track pieces did in RCT3. IE: straight path, shallow curve, s-bend, 3 way junction etc... Which would make a huge amount of sense as they would still align with a grid and meet up with rides etc, but you could also create just about any shape or layout with a good mix of pieces.

The Stig
06-25-2015, 10:45 AM
One only has to google Cedar Point RCT3.

Deuce
06-25-2015, 10:58 AM
One only has to google Cedar Point RCT3.

I always loved this! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEIR8lGdYQI

POV starts at around 50 secs in but whole thing is worth watching.

magicart87
06-25-2015, 11:03 AM
I always loved this! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEIR8lGdYQI

POV starts at around 50 secs in but whole thing is worth watching.

That's one sexy looking coaster! The steam and industrial look is inspiring. I like those curved "paths" too!

Deuce
06-25-2015, 11:05 AM
Yep! All the CS involved, must have taken a very long time. Will be nice in the new game(s) to have a much smoother coaster track though.

Acid Regulation
06-25-2015, 11:48 AM
so, on what Engine is RCTW running anyway?

Deuce
06-25-2015, 11:52 AM
so, on what Engine is RCTW running anyway?

Started on Unity 4, then when trailer bombed by coincidence Unity 5 released so now they're using that.

Here is what Unity can do in the right hands: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV-224nMwN8

liquix
06-25-2015, 11:52 AM
so, on what Engine is RCTW running anyway?

We have been told it is Unity 5

Deuce
06-25-2015, 11:54 AM
We have been told it is Unity 5

It's 100% Unity 5. The palm trees they showed in the last screenshot are the procedurally generated ones direct from Unity's own catalog!

Not sure if that a good thing (because the trees are good) or a bit lazy lol.

Acid Regulation
06-25-2015, 12:02 PM
that's great! thanks for the replies, guys.

JayB_Yolo
06-25-2015, 12:17 PM
It's 100% Unity 5. The palm trees they showed in the last screenshot are the procedurally generated ones direct from Unity's own catalog!

Not sure if that a good thing (because the trees are good) or a bit lazy lol.

Nope the one's in catalog are better looking but who knows maybe:confused: they are somewhat altered as Unity allows to do it.

Deuce
06-25-2015, 12:42 PM
Nope the one's in catalog are better looking but who knows maybe:confused: they are somewhat altered as Unity allows to do it.

True they should be better looking, not sure why they implemented them in the way they did. I'm convinced they are Unity, but in Unity they are not a fixed model, you can define number of branches. leaf density etc. You can pretty much morph between an oak tree to a palm tree. Of all the trees people have managed to create direct in unity, these are probably not the best!

JayB_Yolo
06-25-2015, 01:06 PM
True they should be better looking, not sure why they implemented them in the way they did. I'm convinced they are Unity, but in Unity they are not a fixed model, you can define number of branches. leaf density etc. You can pretty much morph between an oak tree to a palm tree. Of all the trees people have managed to create direct in unity, these are probably not the best!

Ya I know,I saw the whole thing you linked and I think Unity5 is the reason why we saw that upgrade in quality of trees.Really a lot is possible in Unity and I hope they implement that wind system in game.

0BobTheJanitor
06-25-2015, 01:12 PM
I don't understand why people say Unity is powerful; it is only as good as the developer who uses it.

edit: However, the wind feature does sound nice, and I hope it is utilized.

Deuce
06-25-2015, 01:15 PM
Ya I know,I saw the whole thing you linked and I think Unity5 is the reason why we saw that upgrade in quality of trees.Really a lot is possible in Unity and I hope they implement that wind system in game.

It would be fairly simple to make the coaster car entities into wind zones so they shake trees/bushes as they speed by.

You could do it by making them wind zones, and amplifying the wind force by the coaster cars speed. Not sure if you can do the same with water but that would be cool too.

Menno
06-25-2015, 01:23 PM
INot sure if that a good thing (because the trees are good) or a bit lazy lol.
Why do stuff again that has already been done before? It just seems a waste of resources that could be used where it really matters. (e.g. rides and coasters.) It happens all the time and in multiple disciplines.

Deuce
06-25-2015, 01:24 PM
I don't understand why people say Unity is powerful; it is only as good as the developer who uses it.

As a in engine development kit it's certainly powerful. Just underused by people in a rush to get a game out sometimes. Sim games like RCT are a classic case actually, because they have so many hundreds of assets, many animated ar dynamic in some way. So even though it's possible to make each one amazing using everything unity can offer, doesn't mean the team building the game have the resources to spend that amount of time.

Area52 clearly spent nowhere near enough time to make anything acceptable!

JayB_Yolo
06-25-2015, 01:25 PM
It would be fairly simple to make the coaster car entities into wind zones so they shake trees/bushes as they speed by.

Ya that would be really cool to see it and even some leaves may also fall off due to this.

I would be cool if unity could also simulate waves as I would like to see my park near sea shore more like waves hitting the shore, wetting every peep.

Deuce
06-25-2015, 01:27 PM
Why do stuff again that has already been done before? It just seems a waste of resources that could be used where it really matters. (e.g. rides and coasters.) It happens all the time and in multiple disciplines.

Well generally in a 'AAA' game an art director would oversee the look and feel of all elements. So if benches and bins are all a bit cartoony, they would want the trees to follow the same concept (just an example). If the visual feel of a game is all custom and directed by a single persons vision, the end product is that bit more convincing and absorbing.

Deuce
06-25-2015, 01:36 PM
Ya that would be really cool to see it and even some leaves may also fall off due to this.

I would be cool if unity could also simulate waves as I would like to see my park near sea shore more like waves hitting the shore, wetting every peep.

I suppose it would be possible with a lot of work to add particle effects where the waves interesect the landscape, but here is an ocean shoreline unity water vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykPjzV9Z5Ew

JayB_Yolo
06-25-2015, 01:41 PM
I suppose it would be possible with a lot of work to add particle effects where the waves interesect the landscape, but here is an ocean shoreline unity water vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykPjzV9Z5Ew

Wait there's even more http://sundog-soft.com/sds/features/ocean-and-water-rendering-with-triton/unity-water-effects-with-triton-for-unity-pro/

Deuce
06-25-2015, 01:43 PM
One last thought that ppl may find interesting about game engines. Theme Park Studio is actually a game development interface itself, just highly modified to let you 'play' the game rather than design a game to compile and play later on.

Pantera created the the program ages ago, it's nowhere near as advanced as Unity or other mainstream efforts but it was/is used to build 3D games. For TPS they essentially disabled all the tech stuff and then re-enabled the tools you use to build your theme park, one a time, modifying them to make them simple to use without knowing any programming or using scripts. That's why building a ride in TPS is the same as building a ride from scratch for inclusion in any other 3D game (so you have to set hinge points and physics properties etc).

Knobs
06-25-2015, 03:53 PM
What exactly has you so excited? I mean what part of that screen is better than you would expect as the minimum for a new RCT game?

It's more the whole fact that there will be actually a new version of RCT coming ahead,
after my shattered dreams coming from the first teaser ...

Off course there is room for improvement,the lighting is a bit flat and the paths are maybe not curved ( maybe .. we'll see )
, and etc ...

BUT ... In the end we're really getting a new RCT after the 10 years of knowing the franchise died because of the legal issues with atari, frontier and chris sawyer.

It's exactly that moment when i saw the screenshot, where i realised it's way,way better then the first teaser.
All shiny and high res :rolleyes: , not that weird flat pixelised 90'ish " Pre alpha" fail rct mode.
( yeah i overreacted in my childish enthusiasm :)i was really happy, can't you understand :) ?
I mean, i'm 26 normal life, and i keep coming back every freaking day to check on the progress of a silly game.
This game means gold for me, the nostalgia, the feelings, that freaking rct intro tune....
I love it, and i felt it died again after ten years for a quick moneygrab. But i turned out the other way.

No, it will not be perfect.
But in 1 year from now, we are all playing rct with tons of custom scenery and will thing back to this time and feel happy.
Let's try to stay supportive to the team that's creating our silly game.
A silly game that means a lot to many, many people.

Deuce
06-25-2015, 05:17 PM
It's more the whole fact that there will be actually a new version of RCT coming ahead,
after my shattered dreams coming from the first teaser ...

Off course there is room for improvement,the lighting is a bit flat and the paths are maybe not curved ( maybe .. we'll see )
, and etc ...

BUT ... In the end we're really getting a new RCT after the 10 years of knowing the franchise died because of the legal issues with atari, frontier and chris sawyer.

It's exactly that moment when i saw the screenshot, where i realised it's way,way better then the first teaser.
All shiny and high res :rolleyes: , not that weird flat pixelised 90'ish " Pre alpha" fail rct mode.
( yeah i overreacted in my childish enthusiasm :)i was really happy, can't you understand :) ?
I mean, i'm 26 normal life, and i keep coming back every freaking day to check on the progress of a silly game.
This game means gold for me, the nostalgia, the feelings, that freaking rct intro tune....
I love it, and i felt it died again after ten years for a quick moneygrab. But i turned out the other way.

No, it will not be perfect.
But in 1 year from now, we are all playing rct with tons of custom scenery and will thing back to this time and feel happy.
Let's try to stay supportive to the team that's creating our silly game.
A silly game that means a lot to many, many people.

I can relate to all that. I'm 33 now and only played RCT3 the other day! It's not that I haven't 'grown up', it's just that old games are a great way to jump back into your childhood.

I too was, still am, very excited at the prospect of a new RCT game. But I'm also extremely cautious as I see a lot of signs that at least initially Atari were hoping to take advantage of how much the franchise means to people in order to sell a blatantly under developed product. I think that attitude has changed quite a lot since the trailer disaster, but I'm still cautious and will remain that way until something concrete is shown.

I'm also slightly bothered that a lot of the younger guys on this forum aren't able to judge the development of the game from a realistic stand point and are simply deliriously excited at every little reveal.

I think that I would go back to be very excited and positive if I saw evidence of Arari improving upon some part of RCT3 off their own back, not because it is something already criticised from the first attempt.

A little announcement like 'we spent 3 days last week implementing a new system where peeps experience higher levels of excitement and are keener to ride new attraction, based on various factors such as the build cost of the ride, and whether it breaks drop height or speed records for the park'. Little things like this would show they have their heads deeply and passionately in the world of RCT and are turning over every stone to seek areas for improvement.

It shouldn't be forgotten that we love RCT because the games moved the genre forwards massively. RCT3 pulled off the trick of remaining a great game but also becoming so much more than a game you play just to meet set targets - it was, is, about freedom to create as much as it is a sim. For RCTW to be worthy, it cant just be RCTW 10 years on. It has to redefine the genre and amaze people.

OTR24
06-25-2015, 09:57 PM
I'm amazed by the screens but it's eye candy as far as I'm concerned. I want concrete details on how the game will function at it's core. How will AI be improved? How in depth is the business simulation? Will the "peeps" be smart enough to walk around each other? People in real life don't walk into each other. RCT is both a theme park sim AND a business sim. How will the business aspect be improved? How will the interface be improved and simplified? RCT3 was a mess. Building anything in RCT3 was a hassle. The original RCT interface was simple and easy to use. How will the deformable terrain work? How will tunnels work? There's alot they still need to cover.

RCTLOVER
06-25-2015, 11:14 PM
Wow! Yoy guys have made this game 10,000 times better!

Rctsteve
06-26-2015, 02:12 AM
Bravo!:cool:

Wayne
06-26-2015, 08:25 AM
I'm amazed by the screens but it's eye candy as far as I'm concerned. I want concrete details on how the game will function at it's core. How will AI be improved? How in depth is the business simulation? Will the "peeps" be smart enough to walk around each other? People in real life don't walk into each other. RCT is both a theme park sim AND a business sim. How will the business aspect be improved? How will the interface be improved and simplified? RCT3 was a mess. Building anything in RCT3 was a hassle. The original RCT interface was simple and easy to use. How will the deformable terrain work? How will tunnels work? There's alot they still need to cover.

If you wait, I'm sure here at some point they will bring the information to you. And all of us for that matter. Its a waiting game, we have to wait, they will bring us the info when they want to. Not when we ask for it.

Just hang in there and you will get what you are wanting at some point.

James
06-26-2015, 10:15 AM
I don't think that is an entrance, looks to me like just a normal sign, albeit with the mascot on. If I'm gonna guess, the entrance would have turnstiles/ticket booths etc. Also, the path does look rather narrow and cluttered, maybe that's only one type of path offered and it was used just to show it off. All in all, I quite like what I've seen in that shot, but I'm still holding judgement until they show off more screens with more features and stuff.

Deuce
06-26-2015, 10:19 AM
I don't think that is an entrance, looks to me like just a normal sign, albeit with the mascot on. If I'm gonna guess, the entrance would have turnstiles/ticket booths etc. Also, the path does look rather narrow and cluttered, maybe that's only one type of path offered and it was used just to show it off. All in all, I quite like what I've seen in that shot, but I'm still holding judgement until they show off more screens with more features and stuff.

Same. A whole lot of debate about one screenshot with really very little in it! The path is the most important and only gameplay related thing on display - so it's a little worrying it's so thin like the old games.

But that's really about all that can be taken from this shot, in fact the entire dev blog didn't really have any other information on the game itself either.

Roll on blog 12, I'm keen to see some actual game content.

VACkillers
06-26-2015, 10:39 AM
Excited for it, but still will only believe it when I see it... Its hard to accept the screenshot for this weeks dev blog as taken from the actual game itself... hopefully it is, but it's very bright!

Millennium_Force
06-26-2015, 04:47 PM
It looks nice but I do have a few problems, primarily with the screen shot. First, mountains and palm trees. The two in the same shot is just weird and not natural, hopefully in the game theses will match. Second, for an entrance, the path is incredibly narrow, hopefully in game there will be a way to expand it. One of the good things I noticed was that everything alone the paths seems to come with the path, I hope that is what I am seeing and not just the designer making a perfect pathway.

warcat61
06-26-2015, 06:48 PM
It looks nice but I do have a few problems, primarily with the screen shot. First, mountains and palm trees. The two in the same shot is just weird and not natural

Just came back from Las Vegas about a month ago. Few complaints about palm trees and snow covered mountain in screen shot Happy to say I saw both, Palm Trees in peoples yard and off in the distant, there was snow on the tops of a few mountains, this in end of April beginning of May, so yea, it is natural, not out of the ordinary. Just saying.

intoxination
06-26-2015, 07:13 PM
Just came back from Las Vegas about a month ago. Few complaints about palm trees and snow covered mountain in screen shot Happy to say I saw both, Palm Trees in peoples yard and off in the distant, there was snow on the tops of a few mountains, this in end of April beginning of May, so yea, it is natural, not out of the ordinary. Just saying.

Yup. San Gabriel Mountains in Southern California come to mind. Not only that, but this is for theme parks and both can be parts of the same or very different themes, so it's showing that we so far have some theme ability.

RCTW1
06-26-2015, 11:31 PM
Looks good but a little dulless in color.

Marvin
06-26-2015, 11:57 PM
Just came back from Las Vegas about a month ago. Few complaints about palm trees and snow covered mountain in screen shot Happy to say I saw both, Palm Trees in peoples yard and off in the distant, there was snow on the tops of a few mountains, this in end of April beginning of May, so yea, it is natural, not out of the ordinary. Just saying.

It's natural but in all of the pictures I've seen they're definitely not that close to each other.

koekeritis
06-27-2015, 03:51 AM
just...
513

OTR24
06-27-2015, 06:31 AM
Here's an enhanced version of the screenshot

514

*The screenshot was already edited by Wizzerzak but I enhanced it more. Credit to them as well.

magicart87
06-27-2015, 11:11 AM
Here's an enhanced version of the screenshot

514

*The screenshot was already edited by Wizzerzak but I enhanced it more. Credit to them as well.

Uh. That's my edit, re-edited! ;) The reason for the smaller size is because I had to crop it down when fixing the camera distortion in the orig. But thanks for referencing it. It does look loads better properly colored and corrected. I hope they do the same in-game.

OTR24
06-27-2015, 11:33 AM
Here's an enhanced version of the screenshot

514

*The screenshot was already edited by Wizzerzak but I enhanced it more. Credit to them as well.


Uh. That's my edit, re-edited! ;) The reason for the smaller size is because I had to crop it down when fixing the camera distortion in the orig. But thanks for referencing it. It does look loads better properly colored and corrected. I hope they do the same in-game.

Well thanks for the clarification. There were still some areas that needed to be cleaned up a bit ;)

magicart87
06-27-2015, 11:50 AM
http://s3.postimg.org/8o2gcazzn/color_camera.jpg

Here's my attempt: Color corrected but also adjusted the green/red and fixed the camera's perspective.
In any case, It looks LOADS better with contrast + color improved. Now if we can just get a screenshot of rides!

dhal021
06-27-2015, 12:12 PM
I guess my old computer can't run this game :rolleyes: 1.7Ghz is ok ?

Deuce
06-27-2015, 12:16 PM
I guess my old computer can't run this game :rolleyes: 1.7Ghz is ok ?

Just no.


Soz.

JayB_Yolo
06-27-2015, 12:33 PM
I guess my old computer can't run this game :rolleyes: 1.7Ghz is ok ?

More like 3 GHZ would be necessary:).

OTR24
06-27-2015, 01:15 PM
Mine is still better. :D
But it's ok I like the competition! The higher def the better.

Here's the comparison.

520
Yours

521
Mine

I can't wait for the rides reveal!

1wolffan
06-27-2015, 02:29 PM
Actually, between the two of you, OTR... I like Magicart's better. You're is still too bright on the eyes.

OTR24
06-27-2015, 04:20 PM
Actually, between the two of you, OTR... I like Magicart's better. You're is still too bright on the eyes.

Turn the brightness down on your monitor :D It's all subjective. Both look better than the original. I'm ready for the "big reveal" next blog post

*in my photo look top left at the racoon my photo is much sharper

magicart87
06-27-2015, 04:28 PM
Mine is still better. :D
But it's ok I like the competition! The higher def the better.

Here's the comparison.

520
Yours

521
Mine

I can't wait for the rides reveal!

Yeah, well...mine's bigger! :rolleyes: Haha.

OTR24
06-27-2015, 04:33 PM
So is the racoon like the Panda of RCTW?

magicart87
06-27-2015, 04:42 PM
So is the racoon like the Panda of RCTW?

I think so! Which isn't a bad thing, IMHO. A park mascot is new to the franchise, but I guess the Panda was kind of an unofficial mascot up until this version. I wonder what other costumed characters will make an appearance in the final game besides the Croc and Owl. I'm hoping for a Hedgehog, Fox and Hippo.

Deuce
06-27-2015, 04:49 PM
I think so! Which isn't a bad thing, IMHO. A park mascot is new to the franchise, but I guess the Panda was kind of an unofficial mascot up until this version. I wonder what other costumed characters will make an appearance in the final game besides the Croc and Owl. I'm hoping for a Hedgehog, Fox and Hippo.

I'm hoping for an even more irritating park inspector - who I will be dropping straight into the nearest pit of lake :)

OTR24
06-27-2015, 04:50 PM
another question. Did the creator of this entrance have to place each decoration down individually? Did they have a pre set path with lights and benches and they just dragged it out? Will there be an option to copy and paste paths? Just curios...

Deuce
06-27-2015, 04:54 PM
another question. Did the creator of this entrance have to place each decoration down individually? Did they have a pre set path with lights and benches and they just dragged it out? Will there be an option to copy and paste paths? Just curios...

To me it looks like everything on the path is placed individually, I would be very surprised if RCT moved away from that. Procedurally generated items can be useful in some games, but I think for a themepark you want complete control of what appears where.

magicart87
06-27-2015, 05:22 PM
I'm hoping for an even more irritating park inspector - who I will be dropping straight into the nearest pit of lake :)

Yeah! Death to the inspector. Seriously, who needs'm? Get rid of the inspector. I'd rather us go back to the old school notices in RCT.

Lapuente
06-27-2015, 05:33 PM
wow
:D

:)))))))))))))
I will be first in line to buy it

magicart87
06-27-2015, 07:16 PM
Day to Night? Atari, Can you please show a Day to Night transition video?
I'd love to see the Unity light engine in full effect casting shadows and ambient light in a day to night timelapse. Also, I'd like to see some clouds roll by please! Can you give me a night shot please! PLEASE! It will give us a great example of what to expect with in-game lighting.

I hope it looks similar to this (only better):
http://i.giphy.com/3o85xkK1N6xy4ex32w.gif

MrStripy
06-27-2015, 07:20 PM
Day to Night? Atari, Can you please give us (well, me) a Day to Night transition video!
So we can see the light engine in full effect casting night shadows and ambient light. Also, I'd like to see some clouds roll by please! Can you give me a night shot please!

I hope it looks similar to this:
http://i.giphy.com/3o85xkK1N6xy4ex32w.gif
Well considering they've only just showed us it in daytime, if feel nighttime will be quite a long time away, maybe mid august ore something. It means they have to do loads of things.

magicart87
06-27-2015, 07:22 PM
Well considering they've only just showed us it in daytime, if feel nighttime will be quite a long time away, maybe mid august ore something. It means they have to do loads of things.

Yeah your right. It's probably premature to wish for a night shot but it would be nice to see.

Deuce
06-27-2015, 07:24 PM
Day to Night? Atari, Can you please show a Day to Night transition video?
I'd love to see the Unity light engine in full effect casting shadows and ambient light in a day to night timelapse. Also, I'd like to see some clouds roll by please! Can you give me a night shot please! PLEASE! It will give us a great example of what to expect with in-game lighting.

I hope it looks similar to this (only better):
http://i.giphy.com/3o85xkK1N6xy4ex32w.gif

Dude. You're good at this stuff huh?

Maybe to save us all from waiting for the game from Atari you could just do the entire game in GIFs :)

Just draw what you think it should look like, rides and all. If what they deliver is less - at least they won't be able to say they didn't know what we were expecting!

magicart87
06-27-2015, 07:26 PM
Dude. You're good at this stuff huh?

Maybe to save us all from waiting for the game from Atari you could just do the entire game in GIFs :)

Just draw what you think it should look like, rides and all. If what they deliver is less - at least they won't be able to say they didn't know what we were expecting!

Haha. Bored is all. Thanks!? I would really like a nighttime screenshot though. I would break out my 3D modeling skillz too but I think Atari should design the game "first". ;)

Deuce
06-27-2015, 07:29 PM
Yeah your right. It's probably premature to wish for a night shot but it would be nice to see.

Production happens in 'blocks'. So if they have a daytime sky and lighting scheme, they must already have a nighttime version too. Generally you don't skip between elements in a production as people lose focus in between and it becomes very inefficient.

I don't know of course, but I would be very surprised if it isn't already possible to flip between day and night. It's such a fundamental thing, they couldn't even progress ride models without having set parameters for nighttime lighting etc.

Deuce
06-27-2015, 07:32 PM
Haha. Bored is all. Thanks!? I would really like a nighttime screenshot though. I would break out my 3D modeling skillz too but I think Atari should design the game "first". ;)

lol - boredom is easy to come by waiting between blog posts!

By the way, I just noticed a MASSIVE issue with the original screenshot. You spotted it? clue: light sources...

magicart87
06-27-2015, 07:35 PM
lol - boredom is easy to come by waiting between blog posts!

By the way, I just noticed a MASSIVE issue with the original screenshot. You spotted it? clue: light sources...

What is it? Massive huh. We'll that's not good.

Deuce
06-27-2015, 07:42 PM
No!? I'm intrigued! What?

In the screenshot, the shadows are cast from both left and right. The shadows are being cast from more than one light source. Specifically, the lights along the path. This makes no sense as it's daytime and the Sun (a single point of light) would clearly be much more powerful than some lightbulbs.

This also explains the washed out image. The entire scene is being lit by light sources (the path lights) that are way too close to be providing global lighting. In unity you can set light intensity and also flare. They have increased the flare to make a light that is not too intense spread far enough to cast shadows. In doing so, the light washed out the scene.

Frankly, it's extremely amatuer. It would be the simplest thing to set a global light source, even if it was just for the screenshot for the blog post.

It also explains why it's broad daylight and the lights are on.

EDIT: There does also appear to be a global light source as the sky varies in colour - I think it may be an issue with shadows and solids occlusion that made them use point light sources to light the scene. The global lighting probably doesn't interact with the models in the scene at all. Which is understandable at an early stage of development - but also undermines the statement that this is 'in game'.

magicart87
06-27-2015, 07:57 PM
If a global lightdome was set too high it could explain the washed-out look because it would be illuminating everything from every angle; and if so perhaps too much. (It could also be ***ty photoshopping or a quirky render)

The fact that it is casting two equal-distant cast shadows at opposite ends of this screenshot though is troubling... but it almost looks as if the lightsource(s) are out of frame just beyond the edge of the entrance walls. I don't think a lightdome is being used here. In any case, I don't think the shadows we're seeing are being cast from the lamps overhead either. Odd. I wouldn't be surprised if the model textures themselves have some luminescence added to them. That's not a bad thing; it actually helps the camera/engine render more detail at night but overdoing it can again cause that washed out look. This isn't a night shot and it isn't a great daytime shot either so I'm not really sure what to make of any of this. I wonder where the light sources originate!? It doesn't appear to be global as you've stated.

Deuce
06-27-2015, 08:09 PM
If a global lightdome was set to "full" light it could explain the washed-out look because it would be illuminating everything from every angle; and if so perhaps too much.

The fact that it is casting two equal-distant cast shadows at opposite ends of this screenshot though is troubling... but it almost looks as if the lightsource(s) are out of frame just beyond the edge of the entrance walls. I don't think a lightdome is being used here. In any case, I don't think the shadows we're seeing are being cast from the lamps overhead either. Odd. I wouldn't be surprised if the model textures themselves have some luminescence added to them. That's not a bad thing; it actually helps the camera/engine render more detail at night but overdoing it can again cause that washed out look. This isn't a night shot and it isn't a great daytime shot either so I'm not really sure what to make of any of this. I wonder where the light sources originate!? It doesn't appear to be global as you've stated.

Let's face it, there are palm trees in the foreground and snow in the background. The sky is blue and bright yet the shadows on the ground are coming from the path lights (or another set of light sources). Either way attention to detail at Atari is apparently lower than the attention to detail of this community as we're spotting these things!

I just held a ruler up to the image and to me it looks like the light sources are the lamps. The nearest planter on the right is casting a shadow directly in line with the nearest lamp on the left.

It's extremely disappointing. You would think that after the trailer they would be super careful about the professionalism of the media they show us. This is so clearly a scene taken from a game that is not so far developed to be able to generate the scene naturally without some help. How simple would it have been to create a second lighting layer and switch the lights on one side to the hidden layer to avoid the giveaway 2 directional shadows?

I'm sorry to be all negative (yet again I know..) but this sort of stuff simply doesn't happen with an experienced team. Sure, the image looks pretty enough. But that's easy these days. The giveaway is in the finer details.

magicart87
06-27-2015, 08:16 PM
I'm fairly certain the mountain range and sky is nothing more than backdrop. 'Though I hope I'm wrong.

Also, I don't get how everything textured looks so dang flat. Can you tell if any bump maps are being used here? To me it looks like straight textures only(look at the brick corners)Flat! The only slight relief is in the mascot header, but then again that appears to be the only model they actually created, the rest is pre-fab library models from Unity.

Deuce
06-27-2015, 08:17 PM
I'm fairly certain the mountain range and sky is nothing more than backdrop. 'Though I hope I'm wrong.

I'm sure it is too. But after weeks/months of begging for something 'in game' why not make sure what they show is perfect? If they want to show a tropical foreground then use a tropical background...

Or is it possible that actually it wasn't supposed to be a tropical foreground, but to sex up the scene they used some of Unity's very nice palm trees to give us something to look at..

It feels like nothing from Atari is 100% genuine. and this image sure as hell wouldn't be generated in this way in the final game. Not unless RCTW takes place on a planet with 2 suns...

magicart87
06-27-2015, 08:22 PM
I'm sure it is too. But after weeks/months of begging for something 'in game' why not make sure what they show is perfect? If they want to show a tropical foreground then use a tropical background..Or is it possible that actually it wasn't supposed to be a tropical foreground, but to sex up the scene they used some of Unity's very nice palm trees to give us something to look at..


Ding Ding! Winner Winner! Grab a prize!

Deuce
06-27-2015, 08:22 PM
I don't get how everything textured looks so dang flat.Can you tell if any bump maps are being used here? To me it looks like straight textures only(look at the brick corners)Flat!

The mascot decals are bump mapped (you can see the lighting ray tracing the high points - although god knows what the light source is for that!!) but yeah the rest looks flat.

the bins and benches are the worse offenders. And I also note the slats on the benches are just texture, there are no actual slats, there are no gaps.

magicart87
06-27-2015, 08:41 PM
This is why I honestly don't understand the praise this screenshot is getting.

I'm harsh in critiquing images. (it's what I do professionally) I genuinely "try" to give the benefit of the doubt and not be negative towards conceptual images and quick redesigns. This screenshot is clearly a quick rework. I tend to give it a pass. On the other hand, this screenshot is supposed to represent the game we will hopefully be purchasing. It should look professional and sexy! And it does at first glance...

It's a great improvement over what we were previously shown -- don't get me wrong. But it seems like most of the forum is comparing this image to Area 52/Pipework's screenshots? Shouldn't we be judging THIS on it's own merits and flaws? I don't presume to speak for the forum. I only speak for myself. And this screenshot is just "average" in my opinion.

I think the game is further off in development than most people are ready to accept and admit. It's my opinion. With the onslaught of Frontier "winning" at their game...I think Atari needed to show something and as a result, we got this!

It's good but it's just not great. There is still a lot to be desired. It's flat and void of character. Flawed. But, there's always room for improvement. I remain hopeful. Hopeful these issues are addressed.

(THIS IS MY OPINION)

Deuce
06-27-2015, 08:50 PM
I think this game is further off in development than most people are ready to accept. It's my opinion. With the onslaught of Frontier "winning" at their game...I think Atari needed to show something. As a result...we got this! It's good but it's just not great. There's still a lot to be desired. I remain hopeful. Hopefully these issues are addressed.

It does suggest the screenshot is somewhat forcibly extracted from a game build that isn't really ready to be shown yet.

The thing is, Mattlab is probably a perfectly good producer. He probably has all the right ideas. And I'm sure when he asked for a screenshot he believed the game was suitably developed to provide one. The developers must have agreed and released what we see now.

But being 100% serious and business minded about this, the sort of developers that would normally work on a 'AAA' game would not provide a shot that had obvious contextual flaws in it, and certainly not one with inexplicable light sources. There is a minimum level of professionalism that you expect from developers working in the higher levels of the industry.

Based on the above, I'm going to go on record saying that whoever the new developers are - it's a safe bet none of us will have heard of them. As ever, I'd be delighted to be proved wrong!!

I get the feeling atari are still not paying the sort of development dollar that this game deserves.

magicart87
06-27-2015, 09:05 PM
I'm inclined to agree. Atari has no choice but to develop this game. The burdens they must carry throughout it's development are quite simply "limited finances" and "our expectations". It's difficult for a near broke company to produce an AAA game, especially one that's likely not from an AAA dev team (speculation). Our expectations are high.

Hey. "Cheap" products often look and function cheaply. For this game to succeed I think greater care needs to be given to the "details." Give us a solid game that looks like a million bucks! I can wait.

I look forward to the next blog post and remain hopeful that "progress" is progressing.

Deuce
06-27-2015, 09:18 PM
I'm inclined to agree. Atari has no choice but to develop this game. The burdens they must carry throughout it's development are quite simply "limited finances" and "our expectations". It's difficult for a near broke company to produce an AAA game, especially one that's likely not from an AAA dev team. And our expectations are high. "Cheap" products often look and function cheaply. For this game to succeed I think greater care needs to be given to the "details".

I look forward to the next blog post.

I don't think there was another way though. During the initial bankruptcy proceeding buyers for the franchise were sought but no one made a high enough value offer. In the end Atari argued that they would get more by monetizing the IP than by selling it off on the cheap. As it stands, and as I understand it, Atari is now only protected by following the plan they laid out to the court in order to stay the bankruptcy proceedings. In other words, I think they are now obliged to produce this game irrespective of whether or not they can afford the investment the game deserves. One potential reason for so many developer changes, is that they can't be seen to be splashing out until they research cheaper alternatives and can prove they were failing. I suspect that not a penny can be spent on this game until it can be demonstrated it is necessary and unavoidable.

These things (if correct) would indeed be tough limitations to making a serious successor to RCT3.

magicart87
06-27-2015, 09:27 PM
I wish they would just tell us. I mean Anything! I can't recall reading or hearing anything definitive on this entire game build!

PixelPlayer
06-27-2015, 09:30 PM
Everything you're referring to relates to coordinates, which don't really form a grid as they are infinitely definable.

Computers have no other way to do it. They use grids (or better terminology would be arrays which is 2 dimensional or 3 dimensial grid references. There is no other way to really do it.


So far as the user experience of the game itself goes, the grid is currently still a single grid, with the assets taking up a set number of grid squares - everything is aligned to the grid (which is very different from being referenced to a grid).
We have no real proof of that... the assets could easily be grid positioned with an offset position from the grid position thus having 100% pixel accurate movement. Atari have not announced much on their features, or the guy who made the park could be just lazy and didn't use the offset feature if they even have one.



The pathfinding of peeps can be managed by following path geometry, regardless of the grid. I also don't accept that multiple of more complex grids would in any meaningful way slow down the game - remember that as per your example, anything in a 3D space is being plotted constantly by the GPU regardless of whether it fits in with a visual or snap-to grid in the game.


Wrong you plot a path using a pathfinder once, and only change it if you change a path tile that effects chosen paths that cross it, thus requiring only some of the path arrays to update. Only graphics have to be updated every frame (and technically this is not true either if they don't animate or you don't move your camera, then the given asset doesn't need to be redrawn as thats wasted power). Paths only updated on specific events otherwise that is painfully inefficient and just simply bad programming.
Equally the more paths the more node points, the more node points the more iteration you have to do. The more iteration you have to do the lower the frames per second (for obvious reasons). Equally the more guests creates the same issue (more iteration). 30,000 iterations for example would probably be okay to handle but imagine a park with simply 256 grid tiles. Thats a grand total of 65,536 to check through every time you edit/add/remove a path or a new guest arrives at the park or a guest needs to go to a new location. The more grids the more calculating you have to do each time to find the shortest route. Imagine also that you had say 5000 guests all requiring path finding updates upon every new action...it becomes a resource heavy game on the CPU - graphics generally for this game won't be heavy at all.

Also i would argue unity doesn't utilize the CPU totally amazingly without seriously editing it which cities skylines had to do. I don't believe Atari are editing the core engine to utilize CPU cores more efficiently. Unity is a free engine for a reason - its not the best out there but you get what you pay for i guess.

Also - if Atari wants to sell to masses such as laptops - they have to tone it down to get sales and make a profit - then theres deadlines and budgets to factor in. Its never as simple as just doing what fans ask all the time.



The grid that I and probably everyone else to mention it on here is referring to is the grid design philosophy that Atari seem determined to stick with. I'm not surprised as it's a lot cheaper and easier to build a game like that. But as Cities:Skylines has demonstrated, everything you cite as a problem (pathfinding, geometry of curves etc) is all 100% achievable (using the same engine in fact).


Cities skylines uses exactly what i posted, bezier curves for their roads how else would they do path finding with out a grid or even any curves without grids to reference to - you need some kind of node system otherwise you can't figure out where to go. The game cities skylines uses a grid just like any other but the grids are a lot smaller to RCT 3 because its a newer game. They use a grid position + offset position i think as well which allows for finer adjustments as previously mentioned. RCT simply didn't have an offset option (mainly due to the age of the game).

So my point is - its not "get rid of a grid" as people have mentioned because thats just ridiculous theres no real alternative. What they need to add is an offset to each grid square to the object's property so that an asset can for example be at:

X: 5 y : 5 z: 7
offset x: 15px : offset y: 10 px : offset z : 50px

You can also create curved paths using an alpha channel on your textures and stick to a grid which in fact is more logical given it saves processing power over drawing mathematical bezier curves which have to be rounded (but the path itself has to be referenced by a normal grid which is more tricky with curves as you have to cut the curve up a lot to make it grid form so you can use a heuristic calculation like Manhattan and iterate roughly in the right direction to find the shortest route.

This is how a computer finds the shortest path even if the path is curved - you have to convert it to a grid first - the more curves the more grids it has to iterate - and that takes time. Its not efficient but theres no other way.

You can see it in action here:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/Astar_progress_animation.gif

Knobs
06-28-2015, 08:45 AM
Computers have no other way to do it. They use grids (or better terminology would be arrays which is 2 dimensional or 3 dimensial grid references. There is no other way to really do it.


We have no real proof of that... the assets could easily be grid positioned with an offset position from the grid position thus having 100% pixel accurate movement. Atari have not announced much on their features, or the guy who made the park could be just lazy and didn't use the offset feature if they even have one.



Wrong you plot a path using a pathfinder once, and only change it if you change a path tile that effects chosen paths that cross it, thus requiring only some of the path arrays to update. Only graphics have to be updated every frame (and technically this is not true either if they don't animate or you don't move your camera, then the given asset doesn't need to be redrawn as thats wasted power). Paths only updated on specific events otherwise that is painfully inefficient and just simply bad programming.
Equally the more paths the more node points, the more node points the more iteration you have to do. The more iteration you have to do the lower the frames per second (for obvious reasons). Equally the more guests creates the same issue (more iteration). 30,000 iterations for example would probably be okay to handle but imagine a park with simply 256 grid tiles. Thats a grand total of 65,536 to check through every time you edit/add/remove a path or a new guest arrives at the park or a guest needs to go to a new location. The more grids the more calculating you have to do each time to find the shortest route. Imagine also that you had say 5000 guests all requiring path finding updates upon every new action...it becomes a resource heavy game on the CPU - graphics generally for this game won't be heavy at all.

Also i would argue unity doesn't utilize the CPU totally amazingly without seriously editing it which cities skylines had to do. I don't believe Atari are editing the core engine to utilize CPU cores more efficiently. Unity is a free engine for a reason - its not the best out there but you get what you pay for i guess.

Also - if Atari wants to sell to masses such as laptops - they have to tone it down to get sales and make a profit - then theres deadlines and budgets to factor in. Its never as simple as just doing what fans ask all the time.



Cities skylines uses exactly what i posted, bezier curves for their roads how else would they do path finding with out a grid or even any curves without grids to reference to - you need some kind of node system otherwise you can't figure out where to go. The game cities skylines uses a grid just like any other but the grids are a lot smaller to RCT 3 because its a newer game. They use a grid position + offset position i think as well which allows for finer adjustments as previously mentioned. RCT simply didn't have an offset option (mainly due to the age of the game).

So my point is - its not "get rid of a grid" as people have mentioned because thats just ridiculous theres no real alternative. What they need to add is an offset to each grid square to the object's property so that an asset can for example be at:

X: 5 y : 5 z: 7
offset x: 15px : offset y: 10 px : offset z : 50px

You can also create curved paths using an alpha channel on your textures and stick to a grid which in fact is more logical given it saves processing power over drawing mathematical bezier curves which have to be rounded (but the path itself has to be referenced by a normal grid which is more tricky with curves as you have to cut the curve up a lot to make it grid form so you can use a heuristic calculation like Manhattan and iterate roughly in the right direction to find the shortest route.

This is how a computer finds the shortest path even if the path is curved - you have to convert it to a grid first - the more curves the more grids it has to iterate - and that takes time. Its not efficient but theres no other way.

You can see it in action here:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/Astar_progress_animation.gif

Great post ! +1

I think the best way is to use alpha maps.
It's indeed texture greyscaled based, and uses a grid system.
Just for the peeps walkline, i hope they use a spline based system.
A spline on a grid. Something like that.
Otherwise, if you'll use textures with curved paths with alphas, the peeps will cross the curved path borders and walk into a straight 90 degree corner.

Frank
06-28-2015, 12:20 PM
I'm very happy with the screenshots. It looks very nice! I hope the pathways will be better, i don't like the straight, ugly pathways in RTC3. I hope they'll change it.

Caine
06-28-2015, 03:20 PM
On Production Blog #09 Mattlab said that they are working on the path system, and they have new features for that, so let's wait and see what they have done, then they announce the new features.

By the way, the screenshot looks great and I get more and more excited for this game. The new dev did a great job on the graphics!

oneTeen
06-29-2015, 01:25 AM
Looks really nice :D

CedarPointFan
06-30-2015, 07:59 AM
I SEE GRASS! Okay, I know I'm late to the discussion, but these graphics are stunning. This is why I'm glad Atari and the devs are taking their time, because this game is going to be awesome!

magicart87
07-01-2015, 12:54 PM
Production happens in 'blocks'. So if they have a daytime sky and lighting scheme, they must already have a nighttime version too. Generally you don't skip between elements in a production as people lose focus in between and it becomes very inefficient.

I don't know of course, but I would be very surprised if it isn't already possible to flip between day and night. It's such a fundamental thing, they couldn't even progress ride models without having set parameters for nighttime lighting etc.

Mattlab did seem to indicate that nightmode was already established in the game.


Difference between day and night mode ;) The teaser pic was shot during daytime illumination and the night one is illuminated using nighttime lights.

I'd love to see a night shot. Maybe of a Ferris Wheel?

trolleyguy8
07-01-2015, 04:36 PM
That screenshot is beautiful
I hope my computer can handle it!

mikeburroughs1
07-01-2015, 09:28 PM
Beautiful, beautiful shot. All it needs is more accurate lighting, in my opinion, and we're golden. So far, I'm satisfied.

davidvillmow
07-02-2015, 11:21 AM
Really looking forward to this...a bit disappointed it didn't come out like originally planned earlier this year, but hoping the wait means it'll be that much better!

Scott97
07-03-2015, 03:38 AM
I think it looks nice (and will look even nicer when the colour adjustments are made) but I can't say I'm not disappointed with the pre made assets, I hope they're just placeholders until the art team make their own. They look nice but for a AAA game like this they should be made by one team to keep them following exactly the same art style in my opinion

Mattlab
07-03-2015, 12:18 PM
I think it looks nice (and will look even nicer when the colour adjustments are made) but I can't say I'm not disappointed with the pre made assets, I hope they're just placeholders until the art team make their own. They look nice but for a AAA game like this they should be made by one team to keep them following exactly the same art style in my opinion

Art consistency is incredibly important to us and its something we are constantly looking at. A AAA game like this needs to look consistent and have a clear direction and we take your feedback to heart! We don't think you will be disappointed with the end result. Remember as more and more polish gets added things will only look better!

Scott97
07-03-2015, 02:45 PM
Art consistency is incredibly important to us and its something we are constantly looking at. A AAA game like this needs to look consistent and have a clear direction and we take your feedback to heart! We don't think you will be disappointed with the end result. Remember as more and more polish gets added things will only look better!

That's a relief then, very glad to hear! I've seen a lot of progress since the trailer, so I have much more faith that the end result will meet at least most people's expectations

ExtraCheese
07-04-2015, 04:31 AM
Art consistency is incredibly important to us and its something we are constantly looking at. A AAA game like this needs to look consistent and have a clear direction and we take your feedback to heart! We don't think you will be disappointed with the end result. Remember as more and more polish gets added things will only look better!

Great reply Matt, I only hope you can fulfill your promises. Can't wait for next blog post with new footage :)!

magicart87
07-04-2015, 12:22 PM
Art consistency is incredibly important to us and its something we are constantly looking at. A AAA game like this needs to look consistent and have a clear direction and we take your feedback to heart! We don't think you will be disappointed with the end result. Remember as more and more polish gets added things will only look better!

Thank you for addressing this.

jchristiansmith
07-04-2015, 08:33 PM
Art consistency is incredibly important to us and its something we are constantly looking at. A AAA game like this needs to look consistent and have a clear direction and we take your feedback to heart! We don't think you will be disappointed with the end result. Remember as more and more polish gets added things will only look better!

It's really great to see you so involved in the community - that seems to be more rare these days. I'm glad the continuity is being addressed.

Concerning the lighting issue: I'm not a game developer, but I would guess that lighting is something that can be worked on until the very end of production, and typically this early in the process it's not the main concern. However, I would like it if this could be addressed in the next blog- let us know it's something that's being worked on. I would hate for the final game to hav sub-par lighting, when a color shader/corrector could be implemented before release.

Mattlab
07-04-2015, 08:39 PM
It's really great to see you so involved in the community - that seems to be more rare these days. I'm glad the continuity is being addressed.

Concerning the lighting issue: I'm not a game developer, but I would guess that lighting is something that can be worked on until the very end of production, and typically this early in the process it's not the main concern. However, I would like it if this could be addressed in the next blog- let us know it's something that's being worked on. I would hate for the final game to hav sub-par lighting, when a color shader/corrector could be implemented before release.

Lighting and shaders are super important and we are implementing a number of technologies to make them great! This will become more and more evident as we go. Computers are very powerful these days and Unity 5 offers us a lot of capabilities and we want to take advantage of both fully.

jchristiansmith
07-04-2015, 10:01 PM
Awesome! Exactly what we all want to hear. Thanks for the speedy reply!

Nobody_Anybody
07-05-2015, 07:15 AM
The picture looks pretty nice but there are also a few points of interest here.

The post-processing effects are way to much over the top, if this would be the default option, and I could turn it off, I would turn it off. To be honest, this much of effect also makes me wonder what the developer tries to 'hide', if anything? It now looks like it's a little foggy.(fog also hides details, so that is why this 'effect' gets often used to hide graphical imperfections).


So please remove this post-processing light effect that creates this effect and lets hope the graphics we then see are still good.

In addition, the pathway is way to narrow. I know, all games get that wrong, partly because they do not have the problem you have in real-life, in games people simply can stand inside each other.

Anyway, when developing a new Roller Coaster this would be a great time to put in broader pathways and give the npc's some basic AI that would try to mainly keep right (not completely, as that would not be realistic) and mainly try to not walk into other people.. while if there is no other option they can still do that, else you would get traffic jams in the park what is also not really realistic.

Here is an image of a normal pathway in a park. http://www.parkspot.eu/parkoverzicht/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Bellewaerde-Wasbeer-.jpg
The narrowest point in this picture is a bridge, but even that is broader then that path in the screen-shot, even when we would take out the benches.


I think you would at least need the size of the path (without the benches) and even the gray edge to get about the size of the most narrow point on the image of the real park. The benches would then be standing on the grass.

Philmon11
07-05-2015, 06:59 PM
Mattlab, it seems there were a lot of buttons in the control booth on the last dev blog, I was wondering, are we going to be able to use transfer tracks to get more trains on the track without shutting down the entire ride and dumping the que?

Deuce
07-05-2015, 07:24 PM
Mattlab, it seems there were a lot of buttons in the control booth on the last dev blog, I was wondering, are we going to be able to use transfer tracks to get more trains on the track without shutting down the entire ride and dumping the que?

Given the massively unrealistic addition of the 'traffic light' shown with the booth, it would surprise me (pleasantly) if the booth was implemented in such a complex manner as to actually be usable in a realistic way.

Also there is a trend occurring of Atari showing us more impressive visuals but zero comments on how things actually work. It worries me because of course a 2015 game should look good visually. So really the only sign of quality or 'AAA' would be reveal of actual details.

JayB_Yolo
07-06-2015, 01:05 AM
^^^You are right Deuce, impressive visuals doesn't mean a good game and there are a lot of examples that prove it. Visuals alone can't make us buy this game. They should release a small gameplay demo where one of the dev shows off how the game work, how coaster editor is like etc.

Nagta
07-06-2015, 03:49 AM
Haven't been on for a while, checking in and the visuals so far looks promising. I wonder how the other components of the game will turn out. Thanks for the update.

jchristiansmith
07-06-2015, 04:00 AM
Also there is a trend occurring of Atari showing us more impressive visuals but zero comments on how things actually work. It worries me because of course a 2015 game should look good visually. So really the only sign of quality or 'AAA' would be reveal of actual details.

Deuce I totally get what you're saying, and I partially agree, however, keep in mind a few things. 1) there was a huge backlash after the trailer, mainly because of the visuals, so it makes sense the producers want to show off the new graphics 2) because of this backlash, I'm sure the studio is hesitant to show actual footage until they are ready to show off the "new look" so to speak. I'm guessing assets still need to be made/polished and that's the main reason for no footage.

Also, Mattlab has actually talked about the new coaster and path systems, and addressed other areas in previous blogs as well, so they aren't just specific to visuals.

Philmon11
07-06-2015, 12:42 PM
Given the massively unrealistic addition of the 'traffic light' shown with the booth, it would surprise me (pleasantly) if the booth was implemented in such a complex manner as to actually be usable in a realistic way.

I'm really hoping this will be a feature because in the last games, you had to shut down the ride and dump the entire que, making adding another train worthless and not realistic, so I'm really hoping the control booth wont be a decoration and will actually affect gameplay.

Deuce
07-06-2015, 12:58 PM
Deuce I totally get what you're saying, and I partially agree, however, keep in mind a few things. 1) there was a huge backlash after the trailer, mainly because of the visuals, so it makes sense the producers want to show off the new graphics 2) because of this backlash, I'm sure the studio is hesitant to show actual footage until they are ready to show off the "new look" so to speak. I'm guessing assets still need to be made/polished and that's the main reason for no footage.

Also, Mattlab has actually talked about the new coaster and path systems, and addressed other areas in previous blogs as well, so they aren't just specific to visuals.

That was the old game under the previous developers. We don't know anything at all clear about the current game. Mattlab says lots about being excited etc... But actually says hardly anything concrete about the game.

IE he recently posted on this thread agreeing that art direction is important. Well duh, of course it is. But he didn't say anything to actually confirm there is a single person dictating art styles as you would expect from a premium game, or in fact any sort of premium production. He didn't comment about the inclusion of unity generated palm trees either - clearly using engine generated standard assets is at odds with having a clear direction for game art.

I know we're all excited for the game, but being realistic... If a friend 'shared' information to you in the same way as Mattlab talks about the game, you would probably call them for BS and tell them to either speak honestly and openly or go talk to someone else.

jchristiansmith
07-06-2015, 02:40 PM
That was the old game under the previous developers. We don't know anything at all clear about the current game. Mattlab says lots about being excited etc... But actually says hardly anything concrete about the game.

I would advise you to read blogs 6-11 again, as they are all signed by Mattlab and he talks about a lot of the things they are improving.

The very fact that the producers have been so involved is unlike many other studios. The sims franchise for example was extremely hush hush on The Sims 4, and any details that were revealed would later be contradicted or removed. The fans were extremely vocal about many issues with the game (didn't like graphics, lots were too small, game felt limited with features) - yet the producers were nowhere to be found. Only until a month or so before release did they start to try and save the game from it's bad reputation, and at that point it wasn't "hey let's work together to make a great game" it was "we created this crap but we have to sell it anyways and we don't have time to fix it anymore".

Long story short, we don't have a release date, meaning they have a lot of time to polish the game, and the fact that they seem genuine in wanting feedback, and have been implementing some of this feedback already, is a step ahead of most games in this category. I'm very hopeful, and the more support the team can get from fans the better the game will be!

Deuce
07-06-2015, 03:59 PM
I would advise you to read blogs 6-11 again, as they are all signed by Mattlab and he talks about a lot of the things they are improving.

I have read them and he does indeed talk about lots of things that are 'improving' but improvement, based on what went before, could simply mean that the game is now a 6/10 effort rather than a 3/10 effort. There is nothing specific in there at all. Sure, lots of specific areas are of development are mentioned, but nothing specific about features and why this game will move things forwards after RCT3. Obviously the game will look better, it's 11 years later on and computers have increased in power ten fold. But where is the commitment to a game that actually takes a step forward and innovates?

You are also correct when you say that other games don't give any comment at all. But personally I would prefer no comment at all to broken promises, of which there have been several.


Long story short, we don't have a release date, meaning they have a lot of time to polish the game, and the fact that they seem genuine in wanting feedback, and have been implementing some of this feedback already, is a step ahead of most games in this category. I'm very hopeful, and the more support the team can get from fans the better the game will be!

What have they implemented based on our feedback? Other than the rather obvious reality that the game in it's first state was entirely unsuitable for market, I can't think of anything. Mattlab has alluded to specific threads as sources of inspiration, but I think they were both started by him...

You advised me to read the blog posts, which is fair enough - although I had already read each one. I now advise you to spend half an hour reading up on Alone In the Dark: Illumination. It followed a path very similar to RCTW.

Wayne
07-07-2015, 10:37 AM
I'm excited to just play a new Roller Coaster Game again. I hope they are listen to us and give us what we want, if not I really hope they give us the modding tools to take care of doing what we want on our own terms. So far the recent images and such have been alright I'm just ready to see some gameplay or other in game items.

Philmon11
07-08-2015, 11:37 AM
I'm just ready to see some gameplay or other in game items.
Yeah... but remember the "Gameplay" trailer?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzgAhPffWsM :mad:

jchristiansmith
07-08-2015, 12:36 PM
Yeah... but remember the "Gameplay" trailer?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzgAhPffWsM :mad:

Maybe you know this, but that trailer was made by Area 52. There's currently a new team that's been working on the game for the last few months and they've been working on better graphics among other new features.

I'm almost certain that when we do get a trailer, it will not look like that.