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View Full Version : Peeps anger does not equate to the right to be rude or sarcastic



dwwilkin
03-16-2015, 10:22 AM
I have been reading several threads recently where legitimate points are presented, but some of the community are so upset at the lack of information, these peeps post into the thread with their poor attitude.

Now if you have started a thread to gripe, sure, go ahead. But if you are jumping into a thread where someone is posing a serious querry, and are complaining, or dissing Atari for its actions but not addressing the thread's questions, you really should think twice, write once and take that attitude elsewhere

Deuce
03-16-2015, 11:33 AM
I have been reading several threads recently where legitimate points are presented, but some of the community are so upset at the lack of information, these peeps post into the thread with their poor attitude.

Now if you have started a thread to gripe, sure, go ahead. But if you are jumping into a thread where someone is posing a serious querry, and are complaining, or dissing Atari for its actions but not addressing the thread's questions, you really should think twice, write once and take that attitude elsewhere

I agree in principal but the problem is that people are basically 'protesting' against the game by getting their views in anywhere they can.

It's certainly true the forum is a mess and almost all threads end up more or less the same. But I think that probably stands as a valuable petition against Atari's lack of communication. They should know that even people focussing in the positive are more likely to face negative views than recruit more positive people. It shows the real world weight of opinion.

I'm really not saying it's a constructive way to conduct a forum!! But it may be constructive when it comes to leaving Atari in zero doubt about the majority opinion.

So to sum up, I agree with you 100%, but I'm not sure it will or should change lol

dwwilkin
03-16-2015, 11:54 AM
I understand the frustration, but there have been enough threads started to complain that those peeps can post and repost and triple post there, and leave legitimate threads sourcing information free of their angst. To jump in with a comment about how they are once again disappointed in Mattlab's silence or the pre-alpha trailer only shows their immaturity and results in posts within a thread that have no bearing on that thread and thus should be deleted and the Peep marked down as tending towards being obnoxious.

If that person was having an intelligent conversation with a group of friends about the latest Game of Thrones episode on HBO and someone jumped in to complain about GrrM and why he has not released the next book, the person butting it may be correct, but it is Apples and Oranges. The discussion was about the episode on TV and not how GrrM seems slow at writing. That person I am sure would not like having his conversation sidetracked by a Peep who just wants to slam GrrM

Deuce
03-16-2015, 12:17 PM
I understand the frustration, but there have been enough threads started to complain that those peeps can post and repost and triple post there, and leave legitimate threads sourcing information free of their angst. To jump in with a comment about how they are once again disappointed in Mattlab's silence or the pre-alpha trailer only shows their immaturity and results in posts within a thread that have no bearing on that thread and thus should be deleted and the Peep marked down as tending towards being obnoxious.

If that person was having an intelligent conversation with a group of friends about the latest Game of Thrones episode on HBO and someone jumped in to complain about GrrM and why he has not released the next book, the person butting it may be correct, but it is Apples and Oranges. The discussion was about the episode on TV and not how GrrM seems slow at writing. That person I am sure would not like having his conversation sidetracked by a Peep who just wants to slam GrrM

I think a better analogy is its a bit like trying to have a civilised conversation with a group of friends about the weather, or a film, in spite of the fact you all know one of the group just stolen your car and smashed it to pieces. It's kind of hard to have a polite conversation when there is something so negative haunting everyone's minds.

I still basically agree with you in principal, but it's just a fact (or at least obviously the case) that the forum cannot be well mannered and well organised until Atari make a tangible effort to pick up the pieces.

So you're still right, but I still think it's unrealistic and probably not useful for the situation to change unless that change is driven by Atari

k1ng r4t
03-16-2015, 02:42 PM
I'm with you dw, it's indeed unfortunate. And I actually love your analogy. Not only because it's true, but because it's Game of Thrones. Though it's gotten better, but I think mostly because people are just tired of complaining and not so much their mindset has actually changed.

My main fear is that the majority of the forum is "upset," so they'll go into every piece of information being extra critical of everything within it, scrutinizing it to death until it's no longer even true, meaning each post will only focus on what wasn't said or done and what should've been mentioned, as opposed to what we now know will be done. Sure it'll get one or two threads here and there, but I fear the rest will stay the same.

But maybe Atari will step it up and after a blog or two everyone will calm down and it'll go back to the Old Republic. I am not feeling this New RCT World Order

PixelPlayer
03-16-2015, 02:43 PM
I see no harm in sarcasm.

JMR
03-16-2015, 03:03 PM
I see no harm in sarcasm.

I see harm when serious threads are "derailed" because of said sarcastic statements.

Perhaps a new board, "Complainers Corner" would suffice.

Atari are sort of bringing it on themselves with some of the decisions they've been making though, regarding community management. Don't you think? I'm not saying I don't agree with you, but I think we can both agree that community management here is slipping.

Deuce
03-16-2015, 04:46 PM
I see harm when serious threads are "derailed" because of said sarcastic statements.

Perhaps a new board, "Complainers Corner" would suffice.

Atari are sort of bringing it on themselves with some of the decisions they've been making though, regarding community management. Don't you think? I'm not saying I don't agree with you, but I think we can both agree that community management here is slipping.

There is no community management at all. I sort of feel like they want to release a new RCT game on the assumption former fans will buy it by default. And that this forum has to exist by default, but that the views expressed here are just a pain. At best we get paid lip service occasionally but only after weeks of waiting - for a game that up until 2 weeks ago was supposed to be released already.

dwwilkin
03-16-2015, 06:16 PM
Community management seems to be by request to point out off-topic posts.

But there are a great many one time posters, or low double digit posters who are only here to complain and gripe. It is clear the community does not like how matters have been handled, but we do have a new game coming. As we know from when Frontier came on the scene and gave us RCT3, there was never any chance that the game was going to appeal to any one person. Some thing in RCT3, as the discussions went always was not liked. Still there are those who would rather RCT3 have been a linear continuation of RCT2. We have been patient for 10 years. We can be patient for a few more months as we get more information.

We might shape a very small percentage of the game, even with full disclosure and we were all partners, but they are the guys in the hot seat spending the money to develop the game. They are going to make the game they think they can make money back on. And I am sure there will be one or more things that I will not like (for instance system requirements on Steam show I don't even have a rig that can play the game)

But in our impatience, we can be civil and clamor about all we hate that is going on in those threads dedicated to that, and leave a thread that discusses System Requirements for instance purely for that, and not chime in with a post "NO matter what rig you have you'll get sucky graphics" or such. where that kind of post doesnt aid that thread. Shows the poster as juvenile in mind, whether in age, and brings the entirety of the forum down

k1ng r4t
03-16-2015, 09:17 PM
A-freakin-men.

tycoon
03-17-2015, 01:57 AM
I have been reading several threads recently where legitimate points are presented, but some of the community are so upset at the lack of information, these peeps post into the thread with their poor attitude.

well, if you are so concerned, then why don't you post your feedback to those threads, like those other peeps are doing?


Now if you have started a thread to gripe, sure, go ahead. But if you are jumping into a thread where someone is posing a serious querry, and are complaining, or dissing Atari for its actions but not addressing the thread's questions, you really should think twice, write once and take that attitude elsewhere

it is an open forum. if things are so rampantly off topic perhaps it should be moderated. it is not. and you are not a moderator. why don't you 'voice your opinion' - which you are rightly welcome to do - IN THOSE THREADS - instead of making a thread to complain about complainers... really, you're just making it worse imo...

PixelPlayer
03-17-2015, 02:00 AM
I see harm when serious threads are "derailed" because of said sarcastic statements.

Perhaps a new board, "Complainers Corner" would suffice.

Atari are sort of bringing it on themselves with some of the decisions they've been making though, regarding community management. Don't you think? I'm not saying I don't agree with you, but I think we can both agree that community management here is slipping.

Hardly derailed there is literally nothing to discuss about the game given how slow the drip feed of info is.

unclekrusty
03-17-2015, 03:10 AM
People have the right to express criticisms and are entitled to at least a bit of negativity, but I do think some of the comments can come off as overly impatient, or even outright bullying to the developers.

k1ng r4t
03-17-2015, 11:04 AM
And 1 month later, people are just so mad, they have no respect for others. You are more than welcome to get mad, please just keep it in one of the 10 "I'm mad" threads. Some of us are trying to discuss aspects of the game and you're ruining it. Nobody is forcing you to enter those threads and veer them off topic.

dwwilkin
03-17-2015, 11:42 AM
KIng gets the point. I am not sure that Tycoon has a grasp on it. The thought is not to complain about the complainers, but to get the complainers to steer clear of serious discussions where they have no place being.

So Tycoon, would you have us jump into each thread that these peeps are trying to ruin and add to the foolishness and start a flame in what had been a serious thread, or encourage the mods (they are around) to aid in policing the threads, and to also encourage our fellow Peeps to get better. They have plenty of places to share their angst already. It is childish to share it where it is not wanted.

I have been participating here at the forums since almost the beginning, and have seen what was once discussions about what we would like to see, how we think the transition between 3 to World could be enhanced, to more posts damning Atari and frankly Crying about the way things stand than talking about what we can talk about.

Just count up the number of posters who have damned Mattlab, and Atari and you might find that is the majority these days. I learned 30 years ago in business, an old adage, that if there is a rotten apple in the barrel, it spoils the whole barrel. It was meant that when one person starts complaining so much, so often, so vehemently, that they affect the morale of all that hear them.

It is natural for humans to let off steam and curse a little. But it is now excessive, and spilling over to where it shouldn't ruining the attitude of those threads.

So my point has been, Come On, Peeps, keep the anger to where it should be kept, and not where it is not needed.

(As an aside, ten minuted after I put the first post up one Peep chimed in with exactly this type of mean spiritedness in another thread. It is pervasive)

Wabigbear
03-17-2015, 12:03 PM
Perhaps it would be wiser to just pause and allow a little time to pass while waiting for Atari's explanation? If there's nothing much posted, then there will be fewer and fewer posts from angry people, something we've already been seeing.

Asking the mods to jump in isn't going to solve anything right now (in fact I suspect just the opposite...), only some definitive words from Atari will. Once that occurs, and it sounds as positive as I hope it will, I imagine the forums will calm and discussion can continue and move forward.

You've got to understand - right or wrong - some people are going to look at what you are saying as just dismissing their concerns and are going to react to that almost as much as they reacted to Atari...it's a bit like poking an anthill with a stick. Labeling their concerns as 'foolishness', 'crying' or 'mean spiritedness' - even if they actually are - just doesn't help one bit. It's counter-productive.

What topic is so serious that it can't wait until things calm down and answers are given?

k1ng r4t
03-17-2015, 12:06 PM
Just count up the number of posters who have damned Mattlab, and Atari and you might find that is the majority these days. I learned 30 years ago in business, an old adage, that if there is a rotten apple in the barrel, it spoils the whole barrel. It was meant that when one person starts complaining so much, so often, so vehemently, that they affect the morale of all that hear them.



I like this analogy. Though I'd go with Strawberries instead lol. Apples always have a few not so good apples to choose from at the store haha. Strawberries however, if one sucks, they all suck.

Also I've worked retail management AND retail. You're so right. And when something changes people ALWAYS go up in arms, even if it's a good change they later say is better. I don't get it, but every time I swear. And there's definitely a grapevine, and it can get out of hand which just pisses people off, destroying morale. When you have to approach people to sell something to meet numbers, morale is CRITICAL!!

dwwilkin
03-17-2015, 12:09 PM
Why should a serious topic have a complainer jump in and post off topic? That is bad internet etiquette. I am labeling them as crying, foolish and mean spirited when they jump in and act that way. If they want to complain there are many places for them to do so already, and they are doing so there. Does that mean they have license to do so everywhere?

And I would certainly ask a mod to jump in if a Peep started to jump into a thread, like my inclusive list of Themes thread saying something along the lines that it didn't matter since the game wasn't going to come out until 2017. I would ask the mods to delete the post.

k1ng r4t
03-17-2015, 12:11 PM
it's a bit like poking an anthill with a stick.

dw's point is it's more like spraying ants in the kitchen but they keep coming back even stronger. We'd prefer they stay in the ant hill and it won't be poked anymore.

k1ng r4t
03-17-2015, 12:12 PM
And I'm sorry, but saying no mods are active is an insult to bctrainer. He's here everyday locking this or that thread, all of which end up being because angry peeps. He even went out of his way to pm me when I had a question that wasn't answered on here. I can appreciate that...

Wabigbear
03-17-2015, 12:33 PM
My point is just that calmly sitting back and waiting a week until Atari has more to say isn't going to kill anyone, even if your thread gets pushed back to page two for a couple days. We don't own a copyright on what is considered 'serious' - many of these people are just as serious in their comments and their opinions and feelings. None of them really care if you or I feel it's bad internet etiquette or not - they just want to be heard, and it's not a closed forum.

I do understand that you think that the comments are getting your thread off-track, I totally see that, I even agree with you. I'm just saying there's another way of handling it instead of lecturing people not to...

You can see how well that's worked elsewhere here! LOL! :D

I'd suggest to just hold off until things calm down a bit more...or ignore them.

Mods will moderate according to the site's TOS, and not whether someone objects to a comment made to their thread. Running to have them delete posts is just going to tick people off when it's easy to ignore, and I think they'd probabaly prefer to allow the flames to die down on their own, they've done a good job so far.

We aren't all that far apart in opinions on many things, I just think the same patience some call for others to have would work well here too. It likely will only be through this week.

Wabigbear
03-17-2015, 12:35 PM
And I'm sorry, but saying no mods are active is an insult to bctrainer. He's here everyday locking this or that thread, all of which end up being because angry peeps. He even went out of his way to pm me when I had a question that wasn't answered on here. I can appreciate that...

Who said that? It wasn't me and I don't see any other posts that said such a thing.

k1ng r4t
03-17-2015, 12:36 PM
Wagi we've been trying to handle it in other ways ever since it started. I knew someone was going to say that. You can't name call, you can't talk kindly, you can't talk professionally, you can't talk in your own thread about staying positive, I mean come on what other way is there other than not saying anything PERIOD?

I'm confused, why should people hold off on having rationale discussions because others are mad at Atari?

keeper262
03-17-2015, 12:37 PM
I agree, it is becoming a bit much.

k1ng r4t
03-17-2015, 12:37 PM
Who said that? It wasn't me and I don't see any other posts that said such a thing.



And I would certainly ask a mod to jump in if a Peep started to jump into a thread, like my inclusive list of Themes thread saying something along the lines that it didn't matter since the game wasn't going to come out until 2017. I would ask the mods to delete the post.

tenn-charr

Edit: And I wasn't saying it in attack mode either. Just pointing out we do have an active moderator. At least I think so. Some places you wouldn't even know there was anyone with just the title mod...

Wabigbear
03-17-2015, 12:40 PM
Wagi we've been trying to handle it in other ways ever since it started. I knew someone was going to say that. You can't name call, you can't talk kindly, you can't talk professionally, you can't talk in your own thread about staying positive, I mean come on what other way is there other than not saying anything PERIOD?

I'm confused, why should people hold off on having rationale discussions because others are mad at Atari?

I didn't say that King - I said if their posts are bothering you that much then a suggestion is to wait this week until more information comes out and questions are answered, or to just ignore the comments.

Wabigbear
03-17-2015, 12:43 PM
tenn-charr

Edit: And I wasn't saying it in attack mode either. Just pointing out we do have an active moderator. At least I think so. Some places you wouldn't even know there was anyone with just the title mod...

Cool, yes, bc has done a good job in a trying situation. He's used a light touch. Matt closed a few more threads at first, but they've let the flames burn themselves out. I think it's worked to a large degree.

Thanks for the quote, I didn't corroborate the two! :D

k1ng r4t
03-17-2015, 12:44 PM
Have you not noticed how I've been trying for days now to ignore the posts? Do you honestly not see what happens? Just look through my post history. Every. Single. Time. People will try even harder to derail things and complain about the trailer. It's insane, I've never seen anything like it.

dw rarely posts these days. If he does then it's for real. AND I'm so sick of this argument man, I can't believe you and several others I could name off the top of my head it's so common aren't too! Take your own advice!

Edit: And if you need me to clarify that advice, "I said if their posts are bothering you that much then a suggestion is to wait this week until more information comes out and questions are answered, or to just ignore the comments"

dwwilkin
03-17-2015, 12:49 PM
Wagi, I think you miss the point. If we have a ten post thread talking about system requirements and all of a sudden get post #11 saying WTF, why use guys jabbing away bout such foolishness as i5 cores when dis game has zero chance of being released while they still make i5s.
Or a post saying, don't matter none, the graphics can be handled by a first gen Pentium chip. Jabs at Atari. And a post that does not belong at all in context with the other 10. That poster wants to bash Atari or the dev team and sticks his (sorry any ladies, but I sense we are a predominantly male breed around here and a male pronoun is easier) post into the thread where it does not belong and does not contribute.
We wait for news, and comment on things we have officially heard it is those who slam Atari in clearly marked threads where that is not the topic who are not being patient

Wabigbear
03-17-2015, 03:04 PM
But I think many people here simply ignore those posts in the first place. For myself if they make a valid point then I consider that, but otherwise I just read what they had to say and move on to the next post. It's not the end of the world even if it is understandably frustrating for some. I think we're giving them more attention by pointing them out than by just overlooking them. There's ALWAYS posts that aren't on topic to almost every thread in almost every forum. That's the nature of the beast. And it's somewhat understandable to me with what just went on here. It will pass, it's already far less a problem that it was even last week, wouldn't you agree?

Once Atari gets around to saying something then such comments are (hopefully) going to disappear anyways. Right now with the information that has been confirmed we don't know much anyways, and what we thought we knew before may well have changed or is under review, we just don't know yet.

Having one negative post on a eleven post thread isn't going to matter once you add on another ten posts that aren't negative, it will be forgotten as most threads are linear conversations, so you naturally move past that point, if that makes sense?

iChase
03-17-2015, 04:28 PM
I agree with both of your points, there is a distinct air of negativity around here. I do believe a lot of it stems from the lack of interaction we receive from our overlords at Atari, but it also seems to be an excellent chance for negative people to unleash their negativity. I've contributed to that at times, and I hate that thought. It's really become difficult to remain positive with nothing of value to discuss around here. While it is fun to hate on Atari and those who we perceive as ruining 'our' series, it really starts becoming tiresome to read.

My visits around here are becoming more infrequent, and for good reason. Not only is there nothing worthwhile to discuss as far as RCTW goes, there's so much negativity that it tends to drag others down into the misery pit and it becomes hard to stay positive. I, for one, am trying to distance myself a bit more from daily reading and posting as I find myself reveling in the negativity. Atari may be the target of the pessimism and sarcasm, but it drags others down with it.

That being said, I can't say threads like these are particularly constructive to the problem. It does give us something else to discuss, but sometimes you have to realize this is an Internet forum and it won't be the same as a Shakespearean summit. To Wabigbear's point, the comments are going to happen and frequently it's better to just ignore them and let the mods make the determination. Yeah it's obnoxious and slightly depressing, but it's better than letting that negativity turn a thread into a complain-fest.